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Old 8 Jan 2002, 18:11 (Ref:195571)   #1
Liz
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Liz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridLiz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Brand X Loses Northern Lights Sponsorship

Taken verbatim from today's Toronto Sun (gloating faces added):

===========

Lights Out - Those smirks IRL president Tony George and company have been wearing since Roger Penske moved his team to the series from rival CART were wiped away yesterday [] when Northern Lights Technology -- IRL's primary sponsor - signed off after two years of a five-year deal. "We understand the business challenges Northern Light has been facing, and we admire the positive way it has responded to those challenges," George said. George, whose deep pockets and ownership of Indianapolis Motor Speedway were all that kept the IRL alive in its first few years [] said the IRL is discussing new sponsorship with several companies, which he did not identify, although an agreement might not be in place until the 2003 season []

==============

Okay, now you can insert the hysterical Doom and Gloom, "Oh, no the IRL is doomed to fail, is this the end, what will you watch when the IRL goes bankrupt, oh no, oh dear, waaaaah waaaaah waahhh" speeches here.

Me, I believe I'll have another
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Old 8 Jan 2002, 19:34 (Ref:195653)   #2
Craig
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Craig has a real shot at the championship!Craig has a real shot at the championship!Craig has a real shot at the championship!Craig has a real shot at the championship!Craig has a real shot at the championship!Craig has a real shot at the championship!
How secure is the FedEx deal with Cart ?
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Old 8 Jan 2002, 22:51 (Ref:195793)   #3
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Crash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCrash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
...And how much is the Fedex sponsorship worth anyways?

I suppose the dot.com bubble had to burst sooner or later onto motorsport, and I think you'll find that the IRL will bounce back.
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Old 8 Jan 2002, 23:09 (Ref:195799)   #4
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Liz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridLiz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
So let me get this straight. The IRL loses a team AND its primary sponsor, and "it will bounce back - no big deal." Champ Cars loses a team and RETAINS its primary sponsor, and it's the end of the world and they might as well fold up and die now so we can bury them?

Exactly why is this, please? :confused:
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Old 8 Jan 2002, 23:45 (Ref:195815)   #5
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Craig has a real shot at the championship!Craig has a real shot at the championship!Craig has a real shot at the championship!Craig has a real shot at the championship!Craig has a real shot at the championship!Craig has a real shot at the championship!
And all it's engine suppliers, and it's forced to change it's rules, and because of that it loses the confidence of half it's teams, sponsors, etc. Just remind me how close Team Kool Green were to going to IRL again...?

Hate to say it, but CART has been mismanaged and is in very real danger of disappearing unless something major is done to stop the slide. This exact order of events has happened before to other championships... what's to say it won't again ?
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Old 8 Jan 2002, 23:47 (Ref:195816)   #6
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I am also curious about this. :confused:

I also find it interesting that there has been no mention of IRL teams' funding difficulties (Galles shut down, PDM - no driver or sponsor, several others still with no primary sponsor). How deep are TG's pockets????? How healthy is the IRL, really?
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Old 9 Jan 2002, 15:09 (Ref:196017)   #7
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Liz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridLiz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Because the IRL is not a public corporation, we don't know exactly what is going on with them -- could it be that they are in even worse trouble than Champ Cars, but because The Man That Ruined Indy is the sole owner/dictator, we are just not hearing about their troubles?

And should we infer that because we aren't hearing about them, they aren't having them?

Seems to me this is something like saying the Soviet Union under Stalin was a more stable country than the United States, because evrything the USA did was right out front at the time and Stalin's true depredations were not found out until 1989 or so.

Not that I am comparing TG with Stalin. Exactly. But I say he is no Bernie.
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Old 9 Jan 2002, 16:42 (Ref:196077)   #8
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Oh No, I can see it now, The Marlboro Indy Racing League....
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Old 9 Jan 2002, 20:51 (Ref:196243)   #9
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Liz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridLiz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I believe all tobacco sponsorship is required to end after the 2002 season, according to the Master Agreement of 1998. Thus if nothing can be put in place until 2003, it can't be Marlboro.

Perhaps Penske will sponsor them out of his own pocket? That'd make good business sense, right?
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Old 9 Jan 2002, 21:02 (Ref:196253)   #10
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Speedworx should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The IRL will survive. Its just ganed Penkse. Penske would not have joined if the series was in trouble.
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Old 9 Jan 2002, 22:00 (Ref:196282)   #11
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I don't agree with that. penske joined the IRL because Marlboro said so. They have wanted to be at Indy since 1995 and now they are.
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Old 9 Jan 2002, 23:13 (Ref:196316)   #12
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Crash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCrash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I don't think CART is in trouble- they have a very competitive series, well supported, and growing around the world.

I was of the opinion that so long as they have strong competitor number they could easily bounce back. Now, teams are leaving left right and center, so how many cars are we going to be left with for next season??

Also you've got to remember that the IRL has become more popular with the American public (maybe the IRL's popularity hasn't changed, just CART has slid down the popularity scale?).

I love both, but I feel that CART better do something drastic or it'll be curtains.

"Because the IRL is not a public corporation, we don't know exactly what is going on with them -- could it be that they are in even worse trouble than Champ Cars"
- If the IRL have any idea at all, they will take a look at CART and decide NOT to become a public corporation...
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Old 12 Jan 2002, 04:39 (Ref:197391)   #13
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Dr. Austin should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
If I remember correctly, Northern lights still has at least another year (maybe two) to go on it's legally binding contract with the IRL. There is surely a buy out clause or penalties for pulling out. Now, Tony can pocket that money and look for an even bigger series sponsor.

While it is not a good sign that the new sponsor is not already in place, there is still time for it to happen. There are plenty of rumors about Marlboro, Coors light and others. There have even been rumors of talks between George and Fed Ex! Lots of potential sponsors are watching carefully to see which way the pendulum will swing next, but we all know which way it is currently going. It don't see that changing. Tony has had enough of shakey sponsors and is undoubledly holding out for a really good, solid, longterm partner. All this fits in with George's plan of slow, steady, longterm growth.


And if not, so what? The league has a great network TV contract with it's closest rival now on "the speed channel" (AKA "Nascarvision"). The speedway has two other mega races that pull in plenty of money, so I just don't see cash flow as a league problem.

Now that the speedway renovations are nerely complete, the place will be so awash with cash that Tony might even sponsor a dozen or so cars himself. Capital investment. Ain't America great?
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Old 13 Jan 2002, 16:06 (Ref:198064)   #14
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paulzinho should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpaulzinho should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I wanna see what Pook is going to do. I think he can RE_INFORCE CARTs status WORLDWIDE. Ok they had a bad year last year but they have something the IRL does not. An international fan base and a sponsor.
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Old 13 Jan 2002, 17:30 (Ref:198088)   #15
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I prefer CART, even tho I have not seen a full IRL race as I don't have Sky Sports. I have only seen highlights on Eurosport during 2000
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Old 13 Jan 2002, 18:23 (Ref:198111)   #16
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by hakkiman

"I prefer CART, even tho I have not seen a full IRL race"

Then how can you make a fair assessment?



"I have only seen highlights on Eurosport during 2000"

Honestly, the IRL just stunk right up until 2001. The IRL spec chassis had plenty of stability problems and the engines were fragile. There were also waaaaaaaay too many guys out there who didn't know what they were doing. There are still some of those guys left, but that is a problem every series, including CART, IRL, and F-1
will always have. Don't tell me sportscars doesn't have it's share of rent-a-bozos!

But the 2001 season marked a genuine turnaround for the league. The IRL introdued new regulations for airbox sizes which greatly reduced
the (aero induced) snap-oversteer characteristics of the cars. With that problem solved, the drivers were able to go wheel to wheel in cars they could trust. Coupled with the IRL's no nonsense driving policy, drivers could race each other really hard with complete confidence.

So, to be fair, please watch three IRL races next year with an open and honest mind. The action is thrilling and the 220+mph enviornment is exactly the perfect showcase for Indycar racing. If you still don't like it, good for you. At least you gave it a fair chance.
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Old 13 Jan 2002, 22:41 (Ref:198278)   #17
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Crash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCrash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Right on Dr A.

Absolutely agree on that- some of the racing last year was incredible, like Michigan every round. The racing on tracks like Texas, and similar short but high banked tracks was something to be seen...
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Old 14 Jan 2002, 02:53 (Ref:198362)   #18
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While the lynchpin of the series is very definately Indianapolis, I think the cars are really in their element on the 1.5 mile tracks. They are turning 220+mph laps at almost all of those tracks, yet they are not much faster at the big track. The higher banking of some of those places allows for two and three groove racing, something we don't see much of from the other guys. The IRL aero package makes the cars much more stable and raceable, thus the better show.

CART used to have really great short oval racing until they took all the downforce off the cars. Michael Andretti was the king of the outside pass in the high downforce eighties and early nineties, yet we hardly see one from him now. It's just not possible without enough downforce. Hopefully they will take another lesson from the IRL and give the guys some downforce back so they can actually race again. I don't believe they were running Handfords on the European tour, and those races were much better.

Still, we have never seen CART put on the three abreast kind of racing we saw in the IRL this past year. I think the IRL has the package juuuuust right and it is a shame that the rules are about to change for 2003. Hopefully the IRL won't do much more to it's package than a little fine tuning.

Hopefully they will address the HANS issue and make everyone wear one. They are really going to take it on the chin if someone else gets hurt because they weren't wearing one. And rightfully so. They should take CART's example and make the things mandatory TODAY to give everyone enough time to get one and get used to wearing it. The excuses are exhausted. It is time for HANS.
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Old 14 Jan 2002, 03:33 (Ref:198366)   #19
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Austin, won't CART be going with the IRL package in 2003

The IRL package has been great for the ovals, hopefully when CART tests it on road courses it won't depend too much on aerodynamics and we can have the best oval & road course racing in the world!

But if Lola & Reynard come on board then the chassis are going to be very much improved! Hence over reliance on aerodynamics!
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Old 14 Jan 2002, 03:58 (Ref:198369)   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Beer Baron


But if Lola & Reynard come on board then the chassis are going to be very much improved! Hence over reliance on aerodynamics! [/B]

I don't think even CART has an idea what they are doing in 2003 except i suspect most of those guys will be looking for work.

I don't know the specifics of the IRL rules package, but it is very restrictive and the chassis manufacturers are going to have to work really hard to find an advantage. I'm not sure they can do very much more with aerodynamics.

Dallara has proven themselves competitive with Lola and Renyard in sportscars, so i don't think those two will cause a giant upheaval. Sure, they will build good cars, but I think the formula won't allow much more development. Even if it does, Tony's technical committee can just tighten the regulations. They are due for an overhaul for the 2003 season anyway.

I really don't want to see the IRL cars developed any further. They put on such great races now that there is no need to screw it up!


Hey, Baron, great to see you back. Did you bring the medical kit?

Last edited by Dr. Austin; 14 Jan 2002 at 04:00.
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Old 15 Jan 2002, 00:39 (Ref:198847)   #21
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Unfortunately Austin, I don't share your pessimistic view about CART Well maybe the teams, I'm sure they'll sprout up somewhere else I don't think many of CART's drivers/engineers will be long looking for work !

It'll be a new chassis for 2003, from then on it'll be aero update kits, so they'll all have a clean sheet of paper to work with, then they'll design the update kits.

Yes the current formula doesn't need to be screwed up! but with namers like Chevy,Toyota & Nissan on the line they'll do everything to ensure they're fastest.

Dr Austin, I have the medical kit handy just in case

Note to flamers: BEWARE
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Old 15 Jan 2002, 06:31 (Ref:198895)   #22
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Crash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCrash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
The question is can CART get over its current dramas? Forgetting the IRL, or any other series ever existed- what lays ahead for CART?

Looking at their line up for next season-
TCGR (x2)
Green (x3)
Team Rahal (x1)
Bettenhausen (x1)
Fernandex (x2) ?
Players (x2)
Mo Nunn (x2)
Newman Hass (x2)
Pacwest (x2)
Patrick (x1)
Sigma (x1) ?
Walker (x1) ?

Who has gone MIA-
Forsythe (x1)
Team Rahal (x1)
Arciero (x1)
Penske (x2)
Patrick (x1)

Are there any new cars coming along?
Apologies if i have missed anything, I've been slightly out of the loop of late.

By any account- he net loss of competing teams can't be a healthy thing.

CART has lost their traditionally number one feeder class.

They have had an awful lot of mismanagement.

A very big one- they have a tragic TV deal in their biggest audience. How on earth can they expect the class to grow if nobody has the opportunity to watch it?

High sanctioning fees amoungst other things which has resulted in them losing some of their traditional strongholds.

An awful lot of uncertainty about their future.

Please don't think I'm anti-CART, I love the series, and I hope like hell they can get over this rut. The problem is that there are very few things going in their favour, whether it is their fault or not. I have always been adament that a series has never folded whilst they have strong competitor numbers- if people have cars and want to race them, then a series will prevail. But if CART keeps losing teams at its current rate, there'll be nobody left to race. Another thing that is forboding for the future is the fact that several of the teams already have cars, parts and infrastructure in place that would allow them to run in the IRL.

Can Pook fix it? I hope so, and by the looks of things, most people here do too... but as every day passes, it is becoming a more and more difficult job.
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Old 19 Jan 2002, 02:06 (Ref:201000)   #23
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Crash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCrash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Apologies for hijacking this thread, but can anyone out there confirm or deny my list of CART entrants this season? I'm a bit worried that there are going to be less than 20 cars....
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Old 19 Jan 2002, 02:14 (Ref:201003)   #24
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Hard to say how many, I'd say 20-22
But rest assured it'll still be extremely competetive in 2002!
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Old 19 Jan 2002, 04:36 (Ref:201028)   #25
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At the rate that races might be cancelled, every race could the the last, so you had better be at the front in points after every round. Most of the US road course promoters are threatening to pull their races off CART's calendar if they don't slash their sanctioning fee and show up with enough cars. The deadline for a response (CART honoring a deadline? hahaha) was some time around Dec 11 or so. But we have heard nothing. Is no news good news or is no news no news?
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