Team McLaren - can they compete? - Page 48

loon · 4 Jul 2018, 17:17 (Ref:3834660)

Speed wise McLaren are no more competitive than last season, the main reason that they have scored more points this year is the complete collapse of the Williams team as a regular points scorer

Akrapovic · 4 Jul 2018, 17:35 (Ref:3834663)

Quote:

Originally Posted by loon

Speed wise McLaren are no more competitive than last season, the main reason that they have scored more points this year is the complete collapse of the Williams team as a regular points scorer

I disagree with that. By this point in the season last year, the races Fernando finished gave an average position of 13th.

This year it's 8th. If the extra points were due to Williams collapse than they would only be 2 places further up than last year. They're 5, and with less DNFs.

No matter how you look at it, it's a significant improvement.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 4 Jul 2018, 17:43 (Ref:3834665)

Quote:

Originally Posted by loon

Speed wise McLaren are no more competitive than last season, the main reason that they have scored more points this year is the complete collapse of the Williams team as a regular points scorer

What about Force India? This time last year they were 4th in the WCC with 89 points, this year they are 7th with 42 points. Also, Alonso is currently 8th in the WDC, with only two retirements. 5th, 7th, 7th, 7th, 8th, Retired, Retired, 16th, 8th. After nine rounds last year, he had three retirements a DNS and he missed Monaco. Retired, Retired, 14th, DNS, 12th, Monaco not entered, 16th, 9th, Retired.

Mike Harte · 4 Jul 2018, 17:48 (Ref:3834667)

Oh, come on you lot! Don't let the facts get in the way of a story.

EffectiveSprinkles · 4 Jul 2018, 18:06 (Ref:3834671)

Quote:

Originally Posted by loon

Speed wise McLaren are no more competitive than last season, the main reason that they have scored more points this year is the complete collapse of the Williams team as a regular points scorer

That's not the main reason, but it contributes. Just as Toro Rosso have fallen away as regular points scorers (guess why?)

knighty · 4 Jul 2018, 18:55 (Ref:3834678)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skam85

I predict a grand total of 0 of these things will happen.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13...ing-chief-role

COUGH COUGH!!!!!!…...well its happened mate B-)….….mystic Knighty strikes again......I can imagine Zak Brown satBoullier down and demanded his resignation in order to save the cost of an industria tribunal...….It was all pinned on Honda, but the real problem was McLarens technical incompetence, and Boullier is top of the technical tree...….he had to go...….like I said the race is on to save the 2019 car, forget the 2018 season, its gone.

Deferran is not the man for the job, he is just a stop-gap, he can schmooz sponsors, and talk about the old days, but they need a big technical and aero designer name like Symmonds, Newey, Bell, Key...….and they need them quickly.

peebee2 · 4 Jul 2018, 19:40 (Ref:3834699)

Boullier’s not really a technical man though.

M91 · 4 Jul 2018, 22:03 (Ref:3834715)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

It's amazing how media perception clouds things. McLaren are not doing great but they are doing much better than last year, and are comfortably beating the team that took their engines. Their biggest problem is the gap to the other Renault powered teams.

There's no doubt that they are more competitive, they brought the extra scrutiny upon themselves though.
I think most people are being highly critical due to their wild claims in the past about having the best chassis and being on the podium with a different PU. Now they are struggling to compete with the other Renault powered cars, when they made it sound like they'd be competing with Red Bull. They've shot themselves in the foot by creating massive expectations and being unable to deliver.

EffectiveSprinkles · 5 Jul 2018, 01:15 (Ref:3834725)

I definitely agree with that.

knighty · 5 Jul 2018, 08:10 (Ref:3834758)

Quote:

Originally Posted by M91

Now they are struggling to compete with the other Renault powered cars, when they made it sound like they'd be competing with Red Bull. They've shot themselves in the foot by creating massive expectations and being unable to deliver.

Because the technical leadership of the McLaren F1 team was both deluded and incompetent, this is plain old Fr3nch ignorance, I just worked for a Fr3nch company for the past 6 years, I saw it all day long, the Fr3nch cant be told anything.

Since Boullier arrived they achieved one Podium in 2014......I bet the old Lotus boys from the Raikkonen days are wetting their pants laughing, Boullier was obviously not the brains behind the Lotus flash of brilliance and 2 Raikkonen wins, but he was more than happy / deluded / ignorant enough to take credit for it.

My money is for Symmonds to arrive at McLaren quite soon, he would be ideal for them, Crash-gate is in the past, he proved his worth when he arrived at Williams, and when he left...….Williams rose to the podium, and fell off with his arrival then departure. McLaren desperately need podiums.

V8 Fireworks · 5 Jul 2018, 09:47 (Ref:3834767)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

It's amazing how media perception clouds things. McLaren are not doing great but they are doing much better than last year,

No they are not!

We assumed that McLaren over all these years, starting in 2015 with their new concept, had developed a top level car, not too far off the Red Bull.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

Their biggest problem is the gap to the other Renault powered teams.

This is the problem right here! Regardless of the power unit in the back, McLaren had supposedly developed a advanced aerodynamic platform... Yet the gap to Red Bull is outrageous and embarrassing. While Red Bull are winning podiums and races, McLaren are scraping for minor points positions and being lapped by their Milton Keynes rivals.

"Now we can fight" was publicised based on McLaren assuming they would be able to challenge Red Bull for P3 in the WCC and regular podiums with a Renault in the back --- how wrong they were.

V8 Fireworks · 5 Jul 2018, 09:51 (Ref:3834769)

Quote:

Originally Posted by M91

Now they are struggling to compete with the other Renault powered cars, when they made it sound like they'd be competing with Red Bull. They've shot themselves in the foot by creating massive expectations and being unable to deliver.

Precisely!

Quote:

Originally Posted by knighty

Boullier was obviously not the brains behind the Lotus flash of brilliance

Indeed, the brains behind those results was Lotus technical director James Allison.

However, McLaren do have the services of world championship winning aerodynamicist Peter Prodromou, so as Douglas Adams would say "Don't Panic!"

Presumably long time McLaren man Technical Director Tim Goss (since 1990!) also knows a thing or two about engineering a winning Grand Prix race car, so they should be set....

EffectiveSprinkles · 5 Jul 2018, 10:15 (Ref:3834777)

Quote:

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

No they are not!

Well, the fact is that they are.

Richard C · 5 Jul 2018, 11:17 (Ref:3834790)

They have improved relative to last year. But given their resources they are very far from where they should be. That is the point.

Richard

steve_r · 5 Jul 2018, 11:30 (Ref:3834795)

The problem is that for the last 3 years McLaren have been (quote rightly) pointing their finger at the Honda lump as the reason for their terrible performances. However, some of that lack of performance is also down to the car itself.

The change in engine meant that the team expected to be back at the front. Red Bull have won plenty of races with the same engine, but McLaren are nowhere near their level, and in fact in recent races are even struggling to get out of the first part of qualifying.

This is nothing to do with "Media Perception" that was mentioned earlier, but more to do with failing to fulfil their massive potential. Race winning engine + Double WDC remember?

wnut · 5 Jul 2018, 12:49 (Ref:3834801)

Quote:

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Precisely!

Indeed, the brains behind those results was Lotus technical director James Allison.

However, McLaren do have the services of world championship winning aerodynamicist Peter Prodromou, so as Douglas Adams would say "Don't Panic!"

Presumably long time McLaren man Technical Director Tim Goss (since 1990!) also knows a thing or two about engineering a winning Grand Prix race car, so they should be set....

Tim Goss, aint there no more.

E.B · 5 Jul 2018, 13:54 (Ref:3834809)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

Tim Goss, aint there no more.

Exactly..... he went when McLaren had their post Baku "review" of its technical operations.

chillibowl · 5 Jul 2018, 14:41 (Ref:3834819)

still behind Haas this year and maybe given Haas' missed opportunities, Mclaren should perhaps consider themselves lucky they are as close as they are.

flip side of that is Alonso has scored most of their points so it might even be fair to say they have been let down a bit by their second seat more than the car itself.

im not sure i really recall them saying they would be able to match RB this year though...iirc against the Renault works team was more where they were setting the bar for this year no?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

They have improved relative to last year. But given their resources they are very far from where they should be. That is the point.

Richard

do we know their budget for 2018? i would think that it would still be some ways off of RB.

knighty · 5 Jul 2018, 15:24 (Ref:3834828)

James Allison - yeah him, he sounds ideal, where is he now?.....isn't he at Merc?.....I believe Goss and Promridou have all walked or been shown the door from McLaren, probably by Boullier in a vain attempt to save his own back PMSL....they are probably on garden leave so could be tempted back now that Boullier has gone.....if so then McLaren are now royally on their ar5e......if they don't sort it soon the 2019 season will also be a write-off.

knighty · 5 Jul 2018, 16:18 (Ref:3834843)

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13...than-last-year

OMG - when it rains, it pours…...you think it couldn't get any worse......

S griffin · 5 Jul 2018, 17:28 (Ref:3834858)

Well with more power than last season, they should go well on tracks with long straights, with less downforce

**bjohnsonsmith** · 5 Jul 2018, 17:45 (Ref:3834861)

Quote:

Originally Posted by S griffin

Well with more power than last season, they should go well on tracks with long straights, with less downforce

They should do quite well this weekend then.

chillibowl · 5 Jul 2018, 19:06 (Ref:3834879)

Quote:

Originally Posted by knighty

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13...than-last-year

OMG - when it rains, it pours…...you think it couldn't get any worse......

Stunning admission on the back of other news.

Suppose credit should be given to the zak brown media empire for not sugar coating/white washing of the team's troubles.

**Adam43** · 5 Jul 2018, 19:06 (Ref:3834880)

I think it is implied that they have less downforce for the same drag (i.e efficient downforce) rather than less downforce and less drag.

So more power maybe, but whatever the straight length, they that is only compensating for the backwards step.

P38 in workshop · 5 Jul 2018, 19:24 (Ref:3834882)

Maybe they need Colin Kolles running the outfit -perhaps for the rest of the year only.They can use the time to determine a path through the nonsense that emanates from MTC and encourage the under-performers to seek alternative career progressions.It also amazes me that having designed the MTC with the wind tunnel at it's heart and providing a lake to cool it that they now find the tunnel less reliable than it ought to be an consequently use the Toyota facility.

Were I to be in Zak Brown's shoes I would be submitting a rescue plan to the shareholders very soon because not demonstrating a strategy for getting things competitive would be inviting a short meeting with a P45 changing hands.

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