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Old 3 Sep 2017, 16:42 (Ref:3764111)   #401
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Originally Posted by MagVanisher View Post
it's all just a pipe dream 'cause ACO won't listen to us fans.
Maybe if we make enough noise they will...

Been thinking about this all day - Mariantic's simple solution:-

Rename LMP2 as LMP1 - suddenly lots of entrants

Have LMP1+ as non-Gibson LMPs (that's LMP1 hybrids, privateer LMP1s and DPIs) - the development class

Promote GTE / GTLM as the manufacturer category

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Old 3 Sep 2017, 16:59 (Ref:3764117)   #402
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Promoting GTE as the manufacturer class might be good or a bad thing depending on how ACO maintain balance between marques. Then again, some manufacturers could just bri- I mean, spend more on "development".

You know what, FIA and ACO should make revamp WEC into a Formula Libre-style racing series. Of course, they won't take that idea seriously, right?
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Old 3 Sep 2017, 17:16 (Ref:3764133)   #403
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Originally Posted by mariantic View Post
Rename LMP2 as LMP1 - suddenly lots of entrants

Have LMP1+ as non-Gibson LMPs (that's LMP1 hybrids, privateer LMP1s and DPIs) - the development class
I brought up this kind of idea once on reddit and apparently some people think it is absolute blasphemy.

I think it makes sense to have all constructors under one rule set instead of two. Then let the manufacturers and teams decide on an engine and bodywork. Maybe let manufacturers build their own cars too if the ACO can ensure they won't destroy the rest of the field. Put the faster cars in P1 and the slower in P2. Hybrids can have a fuel mileage advantage instead of a ridiculous power advantage.
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Old 3 Sep 2017, 17:37 (Ref:3764152)   #404
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I brought up this kind of idea once on reddit and apparently some people think it is absolute blasphemy.
Change equals blasphemy for some.

But change is what we need now - and I mean NOW.

I like your thinking Salamus - keep saying it, perhaps notice will be taken.

I get a feeling ACO are "reaching out"

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Old 3 Sep 2017, 19:38 (Ref:3764212)   #405
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It's a pretty arbitrary thing. There's already big fields of LMP2 cars that are the top class in one series, as close on pace as many LMP1 cars of the past, and are fully aware they have a noteworthy chance of winning Le Mans outright. There's no need to pretend it's LMP1 just as there's no need to rebrand GT3.
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Old 3 Sep 2017, 20:35 (Ref:3764245)   #406
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Hmm, January 2019?

I'd take Interlagos, Kyalami, or Phillip Island, thank you very much.

(I know...I know, it's probably Kuwait.)
Indeed
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Old 3 Sep 2017, 20:36 (Ref:3764248)   #407
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Well, the SC365 piece actually says the WEC will have its own 12-hour race from midnight to midday after the IMSA race.
I wouldn't like that, but it would probably better suit Asian and European tv times.
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Old 3 Sep 2017, 20:38 (Ref:3764251)   #408
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I wouldn't like that, but it would probably better suit Asian and European tv times.
Central Euro Time will probably be a 6am start.
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Old 3 Sep 2017, 20:39 (Ref:3764252)   #409
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So judging by this schedule, the WEC is now officially on life support, doing pretty much the bare minimum necessary to still exist.

It will have four races in calendar year 2018, and the championship season will end at Le Mans, which is an excellent way to reduce the press attention winning the championship gets.

And this just highlights to what degree the ACO has lost the European market aside from Le Mans.
Completeley agree. Except for the return of Sebring, this is not good news.
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Old 3 Sep 2017, 20:59 (Ref:3764268)   #410
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I think honestly that Sebring might be a place holder until they get their own weekend somewhere else. Any votes on when or where that ought to be?
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Old 4 Sep 2017, 00:30 (Ref:3764306)   #411
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Trois Rivieres. Or Montreal. Circuit Gilles Villeneuve. Now THAT would be a World Championship event! Far away from Sebring.
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Old 4 Sep 2017, 00:36 (Ref:3764307)   #412
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I think the series will survive just fine despite the feelings of impending doom. They have plenty of teams in p2 so if one wants to move up to p1 there is room enough. On top of that, they have BMW joining next year in GTE. At least BR engineering/Dallara will join lmp1 and the broadcast was speaking of Manor moving up to p1 (I presume with a Ginetta). Lots here don't care for the races of the wec past Le Mans, so it shouldn't be a big deal that they've cut back the number of rounds, right? Bahrain was not popular at all. Nurburgring attendance has fallen since it's first race. Silverstone is having issues and isn't even sure of an F1 race there anymore. Mexico isn't that popular of a venue it seems. And finally, COTA is replaced with everyone's 'favorite track' in NA but some reasons it's the death of WEC?

I guess since Sebring is after IMSA's race it's not good enough. Maybe if IMSA didn't have spec tires and Nascar style rules or DPi actually was a faster class than lmp2 they could run together. People are upset with Silverstone being cancelled. I feel that way as well, but Neveu says it's not completely gone. Shanghai isn't a classic track, but it's the biggest or second biggest market for these guys and there's rumors of a Chinese manufacturer wanting to join ACO sportscar racing.

My guess is the February race is somewhere in Latin America, maybe Mexico, maybe South America? If not then maybe South Africa or even... Kuwait?
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Old 4 Sep 2017, 00:44 (Ref:3764309)   #413
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I think honestly that Sebring might be a place holder until they get their own weekend somewhere else. Any votes on when or where that ought to be?
It’s pretty clear that the WEC is making seat of the pants decisions at this point — the TBD race got moved from January to February between 2pm and 3:30pm on Friday after Porsche objected that a January date was too near Daytona. The WEC has no real plans going forward — everything is subject to change to keep the series alive. And if that requires throwing people under the bus, so be it.

The Sebring 12 hour clone race is the least bad solution for now to meet the three continent requirement and thus keep the WEC alive. I (and many others) doubt it’s the long-term solution to the requirement. But the WEC doesn’t have many options, especially with a winter schedule. Per the July 13, 2017 list of FIA licensed circuits, here are the Grade 1 and Grade 2 circuits outside Europe and Asia by continent then country (excludes FE circuits):

USA: COTA*, Indy*, Barber, Line Rock, Long Beach, Nola, Road America, Road Atlanta, Sebring, St. Petersburg, Watkins Glen, VIR
Canada: Montreal* (not on list but assumed), Mosport

Argentina: Autódromo Termas de R*o Hondo
Mexico: Mexico City*
Brazil: Interlagos*

South Africa: Kyalami

Australia: Albert Park*, Eastern Creek, Surfers Paradise
New Zealnd: Taupo

* = Grade 1, rest Grade 2
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Old 4 Sep 2017, 01:00 (Ref:3764316)   #414
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USA: COTA*, Indy*, Barber, Lime Rock, Long Beach, Nola, Road America, Road Atlanta, Sebring, St. Petersburg, Watkins Glen, VIR
Canada: Montreal* (not on list but assumed), Mosport

Argentina: Autódromo Termas de R*o Hondo
Mexico: Mexico City*
Brazil: Interlagos*

South Africa: Kyalami

Australia: Albert Park*, Eastern Creek, Surfers Paradise
New Zealand: Taupo

* = Grade 1, rest Grade 2
too CotA; too cold; concerns about transport links (although Fuji is awful about that); too small; too small and temporary; too track day oriented (a shame, that); WAY too cold; too owned by NASCAR (and snow isn't unheard of); 12+12 is dumb; temporary; too cold; too cold

temporary; too short

I have my concerns about the layout; Oscar y Juan Galvez once hosted a round of the WSC, before Daytona in the year (crazily), so . . .

too Mexico City

too in crippling debt

too owned by Porsche/too in a country that may be on the verge of a political crisis

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Old 4 Sep 2017, 01:03 (Ref:3764317)   #415
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It’s pretty clear that the WEC is making seat of the pants decisions at this point — the TBD race got moved from January to February between 2pm and 3:30pm on Friday after Porsche objected that a January date was too near Daytona. The WEC has no real plans going forward — everything is subject to change to keep the series alive. And if that requires throwing people under the bus, so be it.
I don't think that's the truth. I'm sure they can say to a venue, 'we want to have a race in the first month or two of the year' and hold discussions with different tracks. If they then say 'we have competitors who suggested to hold off until February because of Daytona' then they just singled down another time of the year. I doubt it's a huge deal and to me it doesn't show anything pointing towards on the whim decisions. Sped up decisions, sure, but they're not doing it 'by the seat of their pants'.
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Old 4 Sep 2017, 02:15 (Ref:3764328)   #416
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Considering that the WEC are now seemingly making knee-jerk decisions and how they seem shocked that Porsche left (though the writing was on the wall for nearly a year), it's clear that they don't have a 100% solid plan and I expect things to be in flux.

Also, without LMP1 or GTE-Pro, the WEC is only a step or two away from being a ELMS clone. That the image a lot of people already have of the WEC, and I'm starting to share that view. If the lose the pro classes, then the ACO have two pro-am dominated series under their sanction.

Granted, this does show that the ACO are open to change on their stance on several issues for which they've been criticized. Such as their dedication to running Grade 1 tracks.

I do feel that Sebring is a good move, but I doubt it'll be a long term fixture on their calendar. It's pretty clear they want a stand alone weekend to themselves. And I don't think they'll get that at Sebring. The WEC should be creating their own classic rounds, not necessarily piggy-backing on an IMSA race, no matter how much we (or I) like Sebring as a track or event.
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Old 4 Sep 2017, 02:25 (Ref:3764329)   #417
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Silverstone will still have ELMS. Which frankly if they had stayed on the WEC schedule in 2018 would possibly have been about what that race amounted to either besides factory GTEs and maybe some privateer P1 smoke shows.

Ideally WEC should either race outside North America before Daytona or in North America between Daytona and Sebring. Porsche's complaint is kind of odd considering IMSA and WEC are completely separate teams, it's more a problem for someone like Rebellion if they're trying to do the middle east and Florida within a couple weeks of each other but still seems more ideal to stay in the US than fly back and forth.
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Old 4 Sep 2017, 03:29 (Ref:3764345)   #418
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Considering that the WEC are now seemingly making knee-jerk decisions and how they seem shocked that Porsche left (though the writing was on the wall for nearly a year), it's clear that they don't have a 100% solid plan and I expect things to be in flux.

Also, without LMP1 or GTE-Pro, the WEC is only a step or two away from being a ELMS clone. That the image a lot of people already have of the WEC, and I'm starting to share that view. If the lose the pro classes, then the ACO have two pro-am dominated series under their sanction.

Granted, this does show that the ACO are open to change on their stance on several issues for which they've been criticized. Such as their dedication to running Grade 1 tracks.

I do feel that Sebring is a good move, but I doubt it'll be a long term fixture on their calendar. It's pretty clear they want a stand alone weekend to themselves. And I don't think they'll get that at Sebring. The WEC should be creating their own classic rounds, not necessarily piggy-backing on an IMSA race, no matter how much we (or I) like Sebring as a track or event.
I don't think the writing was on the wall. Porsche has every opportunity to tell the ACO that things were getting out of hand and they needed to take a new direction with the 2020 regulations, especially in order to lure Peugeot in. Instead, they agree to ridiculous hybrid regulations for 2020, push Peugeot further away, and then pull out.

The only reason the ACO are open to change now is because they have their backs against the wall.

As for the schedule, the Feb date can be anything. North America, South America, Asia, Middle East, Africa, and even Australia are all possibilities. As for Sebring, I hope this clone 12 hour race doesn't happen. Better if they go to Laguna Seca in my opinion. Does anybody want to watch a 12 hour race involving < 30 cars? Not me.
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Old 4 Sep 2017, 03:58 (Ref:3764350)   #419
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I think honestly that Sebring might be a place holder until they get their own weekend somewhere else. Any votes on when or where that ought to be?
6 hours of Indianapolis the Saturday night of the 500-mile weekend.
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Old 4 Sep 2017, 04:17 (Ref:3764355)   #420
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I don't think the writing was on the wall. Porsche has every opportunity to tell the ACO that things were getting out of hand and they needed to take a new direction with the 2020 regulations, especially in order to lure Peugeot in. Instead, they agree to ridiculous hybrid regulations for 2020, push Peugeot further away, and then pull out.

The only reason the ACO are open to change now is because they have their backs against the wall.

As for the schedule, the Feb date can be anything. North America, South America, Asia, Middle East, Africa, and even Australia are all possibilities. As for Sebring, I hope this clone 12 hour race doesn't happen. Better if they go to Laguna Seca in my opinion. Does anybody want to watch a 12 hour race involving < 30 cars? Not me.
I think Laguna would be a good place for the WEC. Either in May with the Spring Classic or in Sept with Rennsport.





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Old 4 Sep 2017, 04:32 (Ref:3764359)   #421
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I don't think that's the truth. I'm sure they can say to a venue, 'we want to have a race in the first month or two of the year' and hold discussions with different tracks. If they then say 'we have competitors who suggested to hold off until February because of Daytona' then they just singled down another time of the year. I doubt it's a huge deal and to me it doesn't show anything pointing towards on the whim decisions. Sped up decisions, sure, but they're not doing it 'by the seat of their pants'.
From DSC here:

Quote:
There were changes made, albeit minor, between the 2pm meeting yesterday with team principals, and the 3:30 media briefing, notably the as yet unannounced/ undecided race dated for February 2019 was changed from January after the intervention of Porsche who pointed out that Daytona’s position on the global calendar should not be encroached upon.
If you make decisions while ignoring a very obvious issue — that Daytona is in January — and change things on very short notice when someone points out that, you are indeed engaging in seat of the pants decision making. Simple as that.
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Old 4 Sep 2017, 04:52 (Ref:3764366)   #422
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Porsche's complaint is kind of odd considering IMSA and WEC are completely separate teams, it's more a problem for someone like Rebellion if they're trying to do the middle east and Florida within a couple weeks of each other but still seems more ideal to stay in the US than fly back and forth.
The flip side of Porsche getting out of LMP1 is a renewed emphasis on GT racing. IIRC, that includes running more cars at big races, like, well Daytona, so the WEC team probably is getting drafted in like just like how Ford's WEC team does Daytona.
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Old 4 Sep 2017, 06:49 (Ref:3764383)   #423
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From DSC here:



If you make decisions while ignoring a very obvious issue — that Daytona is in January — and change things on very short notice when someone points out that, you are indeed engaging in seat of the pants decision making. Simple as that.
That's your take on it. I see it more as open to suggestion and willingness to change. It's obvious that the 'January date' was NOT locked down. The racing world should not and does not revolve around the Daytona 24. But avoiding a race too close to it is a smart decision. But there was no solid date anyway so how is it a seat of the pants decision? You know what, it doesn't matter. We just have different opinions on it. All I hope for is a nice place to race and a well subscribed field.
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Old 4 Sep 2017, 07:58 (Ref:3764392)   #424
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Man, it's hard to read all this. So much negativity.

I thought this was a forum for sports car fans.

1. I see no problem with Le Mans as the finale, it's a worthy finish and surely makes the championships feel more valuable.

2- I don't understand the complaints about Sebring, after everyone complained about COTA.. Who really cares if it's an identity crisis? We get to enjoy more Sebring racing...

3- fingers crossed for Kyalami, I really like the circuit, more than some of the other apparent options

4- shame about silverstone yes, I've been ever year for a while, but it'll hopefully be back and it's not the end of the world to miss one or two years after we have been lucky enough to enjoy many years of great races there

4- I hope we don't get DPi. LMP1 to me is about pioneering, you can't do that on a standard bit of kit

5- it's not all bad. We are definitely going to see BMW join, BR and Ginetta are firm likelys for next year, Lamborghini are possibly going to announce at end of September, mclaren and more have been rumoured to be debating joining. Oh and Alpine supposedly want to be in LMP1 in the next few years.

Some pretty exciting reasons to watch the WEC next year, and I for one will just take it in whatever format it comes


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Old 4 Sep 2017, 16:40 (Ref:3764480)   #425
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Man, it's hard to read all this. So much negativity.
I know, I'm starting to consider switching fields to political science so I can be around nicer people.

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4- I hope we don't get DPi. LMP1 to me is about pioneering, you can't do that on a standard bit of kit


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5- it's not all bad. We are definitely going to see BMW join, BR and Ginetta are firm likelys for next year, Lamborghini are possibly going to announce at end of September, mclaren and more have been rumoured to be debating joining. Oh and Alpine supposedly want to be in LMP1 in the next few years.
Maybe calm down a little, Kemosabe.
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