Le Mans cost vs f1/wrc/wtcc/gp2

[manthey]

http://www.automoto.it/formula1/form...-mi-costi.html

[deggis]

That's pretty odd way to compare budgets. I guess point was to put those against road cars in a not so serious way but it's still kind of irrelevant.

I'm curious where did those figures for Audi & Porsche come from.

[manthey]

Originally Posted by deggis

That's pretty odd way to compare budgets. I guess point was to put those against road cars in a not so serious way but it's still kind of irrelevant.

I'm curious where did those figures for Audi & Porsche come from.

from the italian article: audi & porsche spent 100/140 mln € for the season while TMG was able to spend "just" 40 mln €

[carbon_titanium]

well, has never been a secret that audi is the one with the highest budget; but I think that there's something wrong about toyota... TMG maybe receives 40-50 mln only from toyota + 20 mln from total + other sponsorship = the rumored 70mln € of 2012 and 2013 seasons.
During 2000-2004 schumacher golden age, scuderia ferrari had a season budget of over 500 mln €, being involved de facto with 2 different teams:

team 1 - schumacher and barrichello involved in championship

team 2 - badoer involved every day in extensive tests to develope the car, working togheter with bridgestone to have a different custom compound for each single track

[deggis]

Originally Posted by manthey

from the italian article: audi & porsche spent 100/140 mln € for the season while TMG was able to spend "just" 40 mln €

I used google translator, I meant the source of those figures (Toyota one is pretty often quoted elsewhere too).

Confusing as it says "about 100-140 (Audi and Porsche)", does that mean anything between those or 100 for Audi and 140 for Porsche?

[wolfhound]

The proportions in that graph are confusing because the F1 should finish about four pages further on!

[Deleted]

^Yup the dimensions do not add up with the numbers presented in that graph. Here's real presentation of those figures (no matter how fake / made up they may be)

[Adam43]

A logarithmic scale would help compare the cheaper categories. FWIW.

[BrentJackson]

By that chart, assuming the numbers are at least close (no idea on the reasoning of them, so I can't judge that), it costs five times as much per racing mile to run an LMP1 car as it does a GP2 or Indycar, and four times as much as the WRC or WTCC.

And people are surprised that the WEC has a grid problem?! If that's true, that insane and needs to come down A LOT, pronto.

[TF110]

Maybe because those other series have spec parts like the chassis?

[deggis]

Originally Posted by BrentJackson

And people are surprised that the WEC has a grid problem?! If that's true, that insane and needs to come down A LOT, pronto.

I still don't think "per km" tells much at all, and it is kind of a stupid way to compare budgets really. It's not like the raced distance alone costs, but the competition and endless search for tenths.

Or how would that graph look like if it was made with some GT-Am team's budget? Says "Le Mans Series" (what is that anyway?) but in reality means three P1 manufacturers.

[Adam43]

Shouldn't a series with long races have an advantage here?

[wolfhound]

A budget for "Le Mans Series is very vague in terms of that graph. Is a budget for an AM GT entry or a works LMP1, two very different budgets. Is it an average budget of all. Other question does it cover ELMS, USC etc. or only the WEC. A series like GP2 is very straight forward in comparison to work out a budget required.

[carbon_titanium]

agree, but maybe for LMS is a forfait value of money required per km to run a "default" lmp1. Of couse each class a different cost...
the cheaper one should be lmp2 and gtam, gtpro is more expensive, private lmp1 is a lot more expensive, work lmp1 budgets simply can't be compared.
Anyway DTM and SGT are more expensive or cheaper than WTCC?

[dbagtbag]

Originally Posted by carbon_titanium

agree, but maybe for LMS is a forfait value of money required per km to run a "default" lmp1. Of couse each class a different cost...
the cheaper one should be lmp2 and gtam, gtpro is more expensive, private lmp1 is a lot more expensive, work lmp1 budgets simply can't be compared.
Anyway DTM and SGT are more expensive or cheaper than WTCC?

I don't really know how the SGT cars stack into that graph but the GT300 cars cost around of $300k and the GT500 cars $2m.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Shouldn't a series with long races have an advantage here?

Good point.

For example I am sure WTCC is cheaper as WRC but due to the short races the price/km is almost the same.

[JoestForEver]

Originally Posted by carbon_titanium

agree, but maybe for LMS is a forfait value of money required per km to run a "default" lmp1. Of couse each class a different cost...
the cheaper one should be lmp2 and gtam, gtpro is more expensive, private lmp1 is a lot more expensive, work lmp1 budgets simply can't be compared.
Anyway DTM and SGT are more expensive or cheaper than WTCC?

Though no source, but I believe someone posted in the forum that the price of a DTM car is about the same as a 458 GT3, about 1/3 cheaper than a TC1 WTCC car.

[carbon_titanium]

how much is a 2014 TC1 WTCC? I mean RML cruze or honda civic, because the citroen is not for sale.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Good point.

For example I am sure WTCC is cheaper as WRC but due to the short races the price/km is almost the same.

That's why this is so absurd comparison.

I wonder if they calculated actual competitive/stage distance or total distance for WRC which is usually x1.5 or even double?

[JoestForEver]

Originally Posted by carbon_titanium

how much is a 2014 TC1 WTCC? I mean RML cruze or honda civic, because the citroen is not for sale.

http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thread...118296/page-33
The rulebook of NGTC states that an old S2000 construction costs over 200k pounds, and the new TC1 is much more expensive than the old one.(Or about the same as TC2T cars, if you trust the calculation of FIA).Not to mention the margin over 200K that RML/JAS makes money from and other costs of running a one-car programme.

PS:Someone in the thread of the above link states that a RML Cruze (TC2 spec) even sells at 450K.

[Racenut]

Article in racecar engineering list the RML Cruze (TC1) at 450,000 euro without an engine which you can only lease, not buy. It makes GT3 look cheap.

[Alex Langheck]

For a FWD Touring car....... Madness....

[carbon_titanium]

Originally Posted by Alex Langheck

For a FWD Touring car....... Madness....

agree... I just can't image the real price of the work citroens.... DTM cars are cheaper for sure, and if am I not wrong teams can use only 2 engines per season.

[bentley speed 8]

Seriously, I never thought WTCC cars were so expensive

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by bentley speed 8

Seriously, I never thought WTCC cars were so expensive

The increase came with the new 2014 TC1 rules.
TC1 is an updated version of the previous S2000 1.6T rules.