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Old 3 Jan 2009, 10:57 (Ref:2364417)   #1
henk4
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Cooper T43

Based on the principles laid out in the first post on thread of the Cooper T41, here are some of the identified chassis of the T43, Mk2, 1957 model.
Doug Nye's list comprises 32 individual chassis, number 1-31 and one numbered F2-P-56, (could be a T41?) Cars number 30 and 31 were produced in December 1957 as the works cars for 1958.
So far we have positively identified # 5,6,7,23,24,27 and 28.
Nr.5 is a works car used for "school" purposes, fitted with an FWA engine
Nr.6 was sold to G. Wickens without an engine
Nr.7 is a Rob Walker car, FPF, delivered after number 22....
Nr.23 was supplied to Brian Naylor (FPF)
Nr.24 was supplied to Tommy Sopwith (FPF)
Nr.27 went to Joe Lubin (FPF)
and finally Nr 28 went to Mildren in Australia (FPF)
Attached Thumbnails
F2-5-57.JPG   F2-6-57.JPG   F2-7-57.JPG  

F2-23-57.JPG   F2-24-57.jpg   F2-27-57.jpg  

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Old 3 Jan 2009, 11:01 (Ref:2364420)   #2
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Here are number 28, and three for me as yet unknown cars (and hopefully all T43s). The car in Walker livery is owned by the Collier collection and was exhibited during the Cooper dedicated Monterey Historics of 2006.

The other two cars might be known to many in the British Classic Racing scene, so not having been able to identify them is purely my problem....
Attached Thumbnails
F2-28-57.jpg   F2-XX-57.jpg   F2-XXX-57.jpg  

F2-XXX-57Collier.jpg  

Last edited by John Turner; 25 Feb 2009 at 08:15.
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Old 27 Jan 2009, 16:59 (Ref:2380752)   #3
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The pale blue car with the white stripes is supposedly ex Lance Reventlow
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Old 1 Feb 2009, 22:54 (Ref:2383876)   #4
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I’ve done my best with the T41s but the T43s are much harder to crack, bearing in mind (a) a lot more of them were built and (b) the comments made by Jeremy Hall, Allen Brown and Doug Nye

But I’ll see what I can do over the next few days.
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Old 3 Feb 2009, 10:11 (Ref:2387227)   #5
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Deep breath...

According to the factory/Nye chassis record:
F2-3-57 - works
F2-4-57 - school (FWA)
F2-5-57 - school (FWA)
F2-6-57 - Wicken
F2-7-57 - Rob Walker
F2-8-57 - works/Salvadori
F2-9-57 - works/Brabham
F2-10-57 - school (FWA)
F2-11-57 - Marsh
F2-12-57 - Rob Walker (2.0)
F2-13-57 - Nixon
F2-14-57 - Whitehouse
F2-15-57 - Reventlow (FWB)
F2-16-57 - Leston
F2-17-57 - Moore (FWB)
F2-18-57 - Thackwell (FWB)
F2-19-57 - Stoop (FWE)
F2-20-57 - Gibson
F2-21-57 - Gerard
F2-22-57 - Alan Brown
F2-23-57 - Naylor
F2-24-57 - Sopwith
F2-25-57 - Lewis
F2-26-57 - Atkins
F2-27-57 - Joe Lubin (USA)
F2-28-57 - Mildren (Australia)
F2-29-57 - Gibson
I am ignoring the dates cars were listed as these presumably refer to when they were invoiced rather than delivered

Also note that, as previously mentioned, F2-4-57 and/or F2-5-57 may have been T41s

As far as the works cars are concerned, it was reported during 1957 that, in addition to an F2 car each for Brabham and Salvadori, a third car was run - in conjunction with Rob Walker - with a stretched (1700cc) FPF engine in F1, with the Brabham and Salvadori taking turns. This was probably F2-8-57, though by the end of the year F2-9-57 also had a big engine.
Another big-engined 1957 car was Dick Gibson’s, though it did not race until 1958

Mike McDowell and Graham Hill also had drives in works F2 cars during the year, while Rob Walker drivers included Christie, Fairman and Brooks as well as Brabham.
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Old 3 Feb 2009, 10:12 (Ref:2387230)   #6
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Both works F1 cars raced in New Zealand in January 1958, F2-8-57 (1960cc) with Brabham and F2-9-57 (1700) with McLaren. Brabham’s car was sold to Merv Neil who raced it with 1700cc engine in NZ, Australia (once) and England (once) before replacing it with a T45. Its subsequent fate is unknown, though a car with this number appeared in the US in the 1980s, and was campaigned in European historic events from 1989 by Gerry Porter and others. check image forum
McLaren took his car to England but before the ship docked it had been sold to Steve Ouvaroff who raced it in 1958, after which it was sold via Ian Raby and appeared in a couple of mid-1959 British events in the hands of American Jim Haynes, and then with Peter Doyle in 1960. In 1964 Col. Mike Hunt won the Kuala Lumpur in what was described at the time as the ex-Ouvaroff car, and this may be the car which Peter Cowling had raced in southeast Asia previously.

The third 1957 works car, F2-3-57, does not appear again until perhaps the 1980s, when a car with that number was with various American collectors. At the time it was claimed to have been the car “raced by McLaren in Australia”, though McLaren never raced a T43 in Australia (or for that matter a T45 or T51). If the claim was intended to refer to McLaren in NZ, that was surely F2-9-57. Either way, this F2-3-57 returned to the UK in the 1990s and has raced regularly since then, most recently with Andrew Smith. check image forum

The car Brabham raced in the 1957 Oulton Park Gold Cup is recorded as being F2-27-57. This could be the car of that number subsequently sold to Joe Lubin, as his first US outing, with Bob Drake driving, does not seem to have taken place until November. However the number is also quoted for Ivor Bueb’s mount in the 1958 Aintree 200.

There is also evidence that the factory raced F2-4-57 and F2-5-57, listed as school cars, in 1957 F2 races. Brabham took the former to Australia in early 1958, possibly now renumbered F2-9-57, and raced it with 1960cc engine, before selling it (with 1700cc) engine. After appearing briefly in Bib Stillwell’s hands, it was campaigned for many years by Bill Patterson, but was crashed by John Brindley in 1963. The chassis and body were reportedly dumped and the other bits used for spares.
The subsequent fate of F2-5-57 is not known.

The fate of the other school cars is not known, though one of them might have gone to Patsy Burt (see below).
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Old 3 Feb 2009, 10:13 (Ref:2387233)   #7
David McKinney
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The two Rob Walker T43s are equally confusing. Both F2-7-57 and F2-12-57 were retained by the team in 1958. Persoanlly, I have always had suspicions that the 1958 cars were more likely to have been new T45s, with the old numbers recycled, but in the absence of supporting evidence have to presume they were T43s.
Walker drivers in 1958, when the cars ran in both F1 (with 2200cc engine) and F2, were Moss, Trintignant, Brooks and Flockhart. F2-7-57 was apparently the Argentine GP winner, a fact that was unknown when Len Deaton raced it in Formula Junior evenets in Australia from 1960. It passed through various other Australian hands and since 2002 has been in the Collier Museum in Florida. (As in your seventh picture, ie the first in the second post)
F2-12-57 was sold to John Pringle in 1959 but apparently returned, after which it disappears from the record.
In 1958 the Walker team apparently raced a third T43, F2-16-57 (see below), which was driven by Trintignant, Brooks, Seidel and Picard. The last-named crashed it badly at Casablanca at the end of the year and it is believed to have been scrapped.
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Old 3 Feb 2009, 10:14 (Ref:2387237)   #8
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Three other owners ran their cars for other drivers late in 1957. Alan Brown’s drivers in F2-22-57 were Jean Lucas and Jim Russell, and in 1958 Harry Schell, Ken Tyrrell, Bruce Kessler and Norman Barclay. In 1959 the car was sold to Doug Serrurier in South Africa and raced by Syd van der Vyver with Alfa Romeo engine, then Bruce Johnstone and Adrian Pheiffer.
Cunningham-Reid, Baillie and Ireland all drove F2-24-57 for Tommy Sopwith’s Equipe Endeavour in 1957, after which it was raced by David Shale (1958) and Stuart Dodd (1959). It was apparently brought back to England from Guernsey by Sid Hoole in 1972 and appeared in historic events in the 1980s with 2.2 engine. Briefly in Canada with David Cronenberg in 1988, it returned to a busy European historic racing career first with Jeremy Agace and, since 1998, Tania Pilkington. (As in your fifth picture)
The Tommy Atkins car, F2-26-57, was campaigned into 1960 with drivers Flockhart, Gregory, Burgess, Salvadori and Fairman, in both F1 and F2. As with the Rob Walker cars, it would not surprise me if this was actually several cars (T43, T45, T51), all with the same number. It was apparently then run by Scuderia Colonia with Seidel, Barth, Drogo, von Trips and “Wal Ever” as drivers. It may then have gone to South Africa and/or the US but reappeared in the UK in the 1990s. After being raced by Neil Twyman in the early 2000s it returned to Cologne in 2003.
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Old 3 Feb 2009, 10:15 (Ref:2387238)   #9
David McKinney
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Dick Gibson also employed other drivers, under his Equipe Prideaux banner, though not until later. He drove F2-20-57 himself in 1957 F2 events, and the big-engined F2-29-57 in New Zealand at the beginning of 1958. It seems that he and Keith Ballsat shared both cars during the 1958 European season.
It gets complicated after that, as Gibson found success racing in South Africa. He took two cars there in 1959, 1960 and 1961, driving one himself and using a variety of other drivers, mostly locals, in his second car. The picture is further clouded by the fact that he is believed to have sold at least one car in South Africa during this period and replaced it with at least one other, possibly not a T43.
However, for the record, his drivers in South Africa in 1959 were Ballisat, Don Wagner and Derrick Edwards, and in 1960 and 1961 Jimmy Shield. He and Ballisat also continued to race the cars in Europe into 1960, joined in the last year by George Pfaff and Vic Wison.
The car owned and driven in South Africa by Don Philp from late 1960 (with 1660cc engine) is believed to have been an ex-Gibson T43. It subsequently raced sa the Quadra-Climax and was also driven in South Africa by Tony Maggs.
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Old 3 Feb 2009, 10:15 (Ref:2387239)   #10
David McKinney
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Mystery, too, surrounds the two Kiwi Stable cars of Moore and Thackwell. On the face of it, it seems that, although both supplied with FWB engines, they were eventually upgraded with FPFs and continued to race in Europe through 1958.
Thackwell took F2-18-57 home to NZ with him to race at the end of that year, and it was subsequently run by Lionel Bulcraig. The next owner, Duncan Mackenzie, was killed in his first race with the car in April 1961, after which it returned to Bulcraig who updated it with coil-sping suspension and ran in a few hillclimbs. He still owned the car in the late 1970s, then sold it to Ken Smith after which it passed to Brian Harker in Australia in 1981 and then to US ownership.
When the car returned to the UK for restoration it was given the number F2-14-57, based on the engine number. It was raced once or twice by Jan Heuten in the early 1990s before being sold at auction in 1997 to an earlier owner of the original F2-14-57.
When Thackwell’s car went to NZ at the end of 1958 parts for a complete T43 went with it. It was logical to presume this was the ex-Moore car, F2-17-57. It was built up by Syd Jensen with 1960cc engine and raced by David Evans from late 1960, then Neil Whittaker until early 1964. It then passed through various hands before being acquired by collector Bill Clark around 1970. He still had the car in 2002, identified now as F2-11-57, after which it returned to the UK and was raced by David Jeffries.
It is important to note that Clark’s reason for applying the number F2-11-57 to his car was his belief that the original Kiwi Stable car had been swapped for a complete FPF-engined T43, rather than merely acquiring its engine. The same could have happened with the other team car and F2-14-57.
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Old 3 Feb 2009, 10:16 (Ref:2387241)   #11
David McKinney
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The remaining eleven T43s were run by private owner/drivers in 1957.
First was Wicken’s F2-6-57, which he raced in 1957 and 1958. Brian Whitehouse raced it for George Henrotte in 1959 but in 1960 it (or a newer car with the same number) was back with Wicken. The number next appears in the USA alongside the name of Dick James, who advertsied it for sale in late 1992. F2-6-57 was been racing in British historic events for the past ten years first with David Brown and since 2002 with John Clark. As far as I know it still had an FWB engine. (As in your second picture)
Marsh kept F2-11-57 into 1958, by which time he also had a T45. The T43 was advertised for sale by fellow hillclimber Mike Christie in Sptember and October 1958
George Nixon’s F2-13-57 was rebuilt in May 1958 and, according to some sources, given the number F2-4-58, the same as Nixon’s T45. From 1959 it was campaigned by Chris Summers, apparently for Nixon initially but then in his own name (and that of Equipe Arden). Fitted with a Chevrolet V8 for hillclimbs in 1962. The next owner was involved in a fatal hillclimb accident after which the car apparently returned to Summers, and was campaigned in 1965 by John McCartney-Filgate.
Bill Whitehouse was killed shotly after acquiring F2-14-57, which was then raced by his son Brian Whitehouse and Dennis Taylor. As already suggested, may have gone to the Kiwi Equipe for 1958.
Lance Reventlow raced F2-15-57 only once or twice before taking it home to the US where it passed through the hands of various owners, the last of whom left it with Peter Denty in the UK throughout the mid 1990s. It has since been raced by Barry Cannell (from 2001) and Graham Burrows (2004) (As in your ninth picture)
The same number appeared on a car raced by Christian Goethals in Europe in 1958
F2-16-57 was used by Les Leston in 1957 then sold to Rob Walker (as above)
Dickie Stoop used F2-19-57 until early 1959, after which it passed to Bill de Selincourt. It was next heard of in 1964 hillclimbs with Sir Nicholas Williamson.
Brian Naylor sold F2-23-57 to John Campbell-Jones in mid-1958, and it went to Stan Hart the following year. The number next appears in the 1990s when it was raced by Geoff Williams. (As in your fourth picture)
Lewis raced F2-23-57 from September 1957 until early the following year, by which time he also had a T45. The fate of the T43 is unknown.
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Old 3 Feb 2009, 10:16 (Ref:2387242)   #12
David McKinney
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Most of the cars sold to non-residential owners were raced, initially at least, in the UK, only two of the 1957 production run of T43s were sold for export. The first was Joe Lubin’s American car, F2-27-57, but there were few races for it. The number is next seen in August 1988, when it is offered for sale in the US. It was run in the UK from 1989 to 1996 by Mike Haywood, often with other drivers (notably Martin Stretton) at the wheel. It reappered with Harvey Sykes in 2003. (As in your sixth picture)
Alec Mildren raced F2-28-57 in Australia only until he replaced it with a T45, after which it was raced by Glyn Scott from 1959 to 1962, then Bruce Leer, who five years later was advertising it for sale with a Hillman engine. It passed through the hands of various collectors and has been campaigned since 2000 by Richard Longes. Why it is painted in Rob Walker colours I do not know. (I take it this is the car in your tenth photo)
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Old 3 Feb 2009, 10:17 (Ref:2387243)   #13
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F2-21-57 was not in fact a T43 at all, but Bob Gerard’s Cooper-BG-Bristol, designated T44 and raced with 2.2-litre Bristol engine. It was sold to southern Africa and apparently raced with Alfa Romeo engine by Eric Glasby in 1962. It was advertised in the UK in the late 1980s, then raced once or twice by John Harper before being sold to Glasby’s son in Australia.
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Old 3 Feb 2009, 10:18 (Ref:2387246)   #14
David McKinney
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Three T43s which appeared in 1958 remain unidentified (at least by me...) One was raced by Carroll Smith and another, at the Boxng Day Brands Hatch meeting, by Bill de Selncourt. Either or both could have been school cars.
The third was Patsy Burt’s hillclimb car, which she would continue to use until 1962. It was believed at the time to be the ex-school car F2-2-57, though it was later claimed to be F2-14-57. If it was the latter, the possibility of that car going to the Kiwi Equipe goes out the window.
After its retirement from the hills it spent many years in the National Motor Museum before being offered for sale, when still owned by Miss Burt, in 2000.

Ian Raby raced a T43 in 1959, and others were campaigned by George Wicken (F2-6-57?), Gilby Engineering (Keith Greene) and Gordon Jones. In addition George Keylock hillclimbed one, first with FPF engine and later a supercharged FWB, selling it in 1962 to Gordon Parker, who was still using it in 1966.
The works OSCA which raced in the US Grand Prix at the end of the year (with OSCA engine) was said to be T43-based, though may have been a copy.
Another T43 was said to have gone to South Africa the same year, and built up into a race car. This returned to the UK via Cameron Millar about 1970, then passed to Roger Sweet and was subsequently built up as a T51.

In 1960 the names of Paul Simpson, Richard Wrenn and Peter Westbury are linked to unidentified T43s. Simpson still had his in 1963, but Wrenn’s was a non-starter in what appears to have been its only race. (It was not the Hume-Cooper, with which Wrenn was also involved, and which had been constructed from a sports Cooper).
Westbury’s car was said to be ex-Naylor and Campbell-Jones, which would mean Hart could not have had F2-23-57 when we believe he did. Westbury used his car for hillclimbs, fitting a Daimler V8 in 1962. It was subsequently campaigned on the hills by Peter Hawtin and, from 1965, Martin Brain.

Other cars continue to crop up, albeit in decreasing numbers, throught the ’60s. Ray Fielding ran a superchared car in 1961 hillclimbs, and it was later used by Gray and Agnes Mickel. In February 1963 Fielding was advertising two ex-F2 T43s, one with an FWB engine and the other FPF-powered.
In Europe the names of Gino Munaro and “Wal Ever” both appear as drivers of T43s in 1961, the latter’s with OSCA power.

There were several other F2 Coopers racing in various parts of the world from 1958 on, some of which will surely have been T43s. Rather than add to an already confused picture, these are omitted from the above
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Old 3 Feb 2009, 10:18 (Ref:2387248)   #15
David McKinney
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Finally, it needs to be said that all the above is based on detailed reading of race reports, magazine articles, auction catalogues and books over the past 50 years, personal observation, and discussion with many owners and other players. It contains many unsupported (unsupportable?) claims and a good deal of supposition on my part, but is presented in the hope that it might engender discussion which will bring us closer to establishing a complete record
I haven’t been able to tie in your third or eighth photographs with specific cars, accepting that #3 seems not to be F2-7-57
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Old 4 Feb 2009, 10:00 (Ref:2388020)   #16
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Which one?

Advert in Autosport 26 February 1970

“F2 Cooper Climax 1475cc 1957 Works team car Ex Salvadori. Meticulously maintained. Consistent Winner Far East. Eastbourne 22577”
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Old 4 Feb 2009, 12:36 (Ref:2388121)   #17
David McKinney
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Thanks, Allen
I'm glad there's more than just two of us reading this
In 1970 I was still religiously noting ads from Autosport - must have missed that one
Looks like F2-9-57 coming home - wonder what happened to it after that?
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Old 4 Feb 2009, 15:11 (Ref:2388217)   #18
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Not me David, that's the other one!
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Old 4 Feb 2009, 21:30 (Ref:2388480)   #19
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I'm reading with vigour just unable to assist , Cooper cars have me totally mystified , I am hard put to tell the difference between most.
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Old 7 Feb 2009, 14:07 (Ref:2390450)   #20
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Very impressive work, David. Thank you for sharing it. Not much to add on my part, I am afraid, except more questions. I have not seen in your list for 1960 mystery cars Tom Threlfall (crashed at Siracusa) and Gerry Ashmore. But perhaps were they not T43s ?
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Old 8 Feb 2009, 10:50 (Ref:2390965)   #21
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My 'mystery cars' were ones I know to have been T43s
There are a number of others which could be T43s or T45s - including the two you mentioned
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Old 15 Feb 2009, 22:21 (Ref:2398058)   #22
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Kudos, David!

I was always meaning to have a look at tackling the Cooper car histories - not that I was very keen on starting the project!
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Old 1 May 2009, 21:58 (Ref:2453855)   #23
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Hello - just for info- ex works car roy salvadori chassis nr F2/8/57 is now located in vienna - greetings, rolanddavid@gmx.net
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Old 11 Feb 2010, 08:52 (Ref:2631244)   #24
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Update on F2-27-57
It is now being offered for sale as the Brabham Oulton Park winner (a possibility but not a certainty as David McK stated here in an earlier post).
When I saw the car at the Silverstone Classic in 2005, the history posted next to it, did not refer to Brabham, but just mentioned that it went to Lubin...and then ended up with Harvey Sykes. (don't know if he is the seller, or if it changed hands another time, before the current offer)

Surely a Brabham win will increase the value of a car greatly.
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Old 1 Mar 2010, 21:51 (Ref:2642946)   #25
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Here's another one...
F2/19/57 - Jay Nadelson's Cooper T43 Formula 2 Racecar (The article includes 44 photos.)



Jay Nadelson purchased F2/19/57 from Phil Bostwick, who was one of the five founding members of The Cooper Car Club.
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