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Old 7 Mar 2004, 17:13 (Ref:897220)   #1
santori
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santori should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Sato-Massa vs. Villeneuve-Frentzen

I like Sato and Massa. But Frentzen and Villeneuve are two of my favourite drivers and I was very sorry to see them go. So my views may be biased.

What are your views on the changes? Sato and Massa looked exactly the same as they were in 2002 - fast and wild.
Would they have have replaced the others without outside (Ferrari/Honda) pressure? Has your opinion changed after the race?

Last edited by santori; 7 Mar 2004 at 17:14.
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Old 7 Mar 2004, 17:29 (Ref:897232)   #2
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Dani Filth should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDani Filth should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDani Filth should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
not really .. i still have faith in Massa . . he will deliver i hope
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Old 7 Mar 2004, 17:30 (Ref:897234)   #3
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i say bring back villeneuve for sure and frentzen too them other two guys dont deserve to be here,well sato dont for sure,massa did ok in the early laps
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Old 7 Mar 2004, 18:07 (Ref:897257)   #4
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Why doesnt Sato belong there? Then Button doesnt either, they both came from F3 in the UK.
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Old 7 Mar 2004, 20:56 (Ref:897391)   #5
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I think it's a bit unfair to start comparing them after one race

Sato finished 9th, in exactly the same position as Villeneuve did at Australia last year.

Massa went out, so we don't know where he would have finished, but don't forget he did out-qualify Fisi by 8/10ths.
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Old 7 Mar 2004, 21:23 (Ref:897433)   #6
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Originally posted by Mr V
I think it's a bit unfair to start comparing them after one race

Sato finished 9th, in exactly the same position as Villeneuve did at Australia last year.
I think it's safe to say that this year's BAR is a just a little bit better than last years...silly comparison. Still it is only one race, but JV would have definatly performed better if he was in that car.
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Doesn't it seem sad that drivers like Fisichella, Coultard, Barrichello, and Ralf all have secure seats in F1, despite having had race winning cars for many more seasons than Jacques, yet failing to chalk up as many wins as he (let alone a WDC) that it is Jacques who doesn't have a drive in F1??? Sad indeed.
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Old 8 Mar 2004, 14:59 (Ref:898128)   #7
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In the short-term, then JV and HHF might well have been better prospects, but BAR are looking to the future and both Button and (especially) Sato will get better. We haven't seen the best of them yet.

I suspect that BAR may also benefit simply by ending the JV saga there, which I think was beginning to cause disruption even when he was performing.
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Old 8 Mar 2004, 15:07 (Ref:898134)   #8
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Sato rules he's insane. Love Massa's style too, they're both on the edge the whole time aren't they? Every time they go round a corner you get the impression that they're going to throw it in the hedge.

As for the comparison with Villeneuve and Harry it's a bit early to tell. Massa doesn't seem to have learned much in his year at Ferrari though - he's still as wild as ever.
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Old 8 Mar 2004, 15:47 (Ref:898154)   #9
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Originally posted by TeddyG
I think it's safe to say that this year's BAR is a just a little bit better than last years...silly comparison. Still it is only one race, but JV would have definatly performed better if he was in that car.
How can you say i made a silly comparison, then go on to say that Villeneuve would definatly performed better :confused: What do you have to base this on?
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Old 8 Mar 2004, 16:03 (Ref:898165)   #10
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Sato and Massa did look wild and sadly to me I was disappointed with Taku because I thought he'd changed. However he did have an early handling problem (albeit self inflicted) so that is some mitigation.

Massa? Learned nothing from a year off!

Can't think why JV or HHF are here. They've both gone and you can't compare them to these two for all sorts of reasons.
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Old 8 Mar 2004, 16:22 (Ref:898182)   #11
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Sato is an average driver IMO and Massa is useless....I fail to see why he is still so wild after a year with Ferrari supposedly learning from Schumi/Rubens and with the vast experience of a world championship team. I don't think Massa would be there if it wasn't for ferrari supplying engines to Fauber...oops sorry Serrari...sorry get it right SAUBER.

Can't see any reason why they would replace JV with TS other than to save money and keep the engine suppliers happy...this is not what F1 should be about!

I think F1 is on a slippery slope.....
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Old 8 Mar 2004, 18:39 (Ref:898347)   #12
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You can't compare JV and HHF with Messa and Sato.

As for Sato. If he's on he can be quick. I think he'll be spending more time in the sand traps than on the track.
He's a little to wild for me.
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Old 8 Mar 2004, 22:17 (Ref:898689)   #13
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Originally posted by Mr V
How can you say i made a silly comparison,
Ummm because you did mate!

What do I have to base it on? An ex-world champ buddy who would wipe the floor with Sato anyday. Hey maybe they'll kick Ralf out early since he signed with Renault and JV will get the Williams drive, then you can see for yourself.
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Doesn't it seem sad that drivers like Fisichella, Coultard, Barrichello, and Ralf all have secure seats in F1, despite having had race winning cars for many more seasons than Jacques, yet failing to chalk up as many wins as he (let alone a WDC) that it is Jacques who doesn't have a drive in F1??? Sad indeed.
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Old 9 Mar 2004, 03:01 (Ref:898923)   #14
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Snrub should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSnrub should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
In 2003 JV clearly did not show what he did earlier in his career (BAR included). Massa showed well, ignoring the spins. Overall I'd say 2003 HHF and JV were better than so far 2004 Massa and Sato.

I can't figure out why Sato is so marketable to Honda. Isn't a former WDC more marketable than a mediocre Japanese guy?
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Old 9 Mar 2004, 03:06 (Ref:898928)   #15
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Sato & Massa were both incredibly dissapointing & if they want to stay in F1 they must both learn that the best way to get a good result is to keep the car on the bitumen.
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Old 9 Mar 2004, 03:12 (Ref:898935)   #16
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I can't figure out why Sato is so marketable to Honda. Isn't a former WDC more marketable than a mediocre Japanese guy?
Not if he is bagging the product and costing a fortune.
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Old 9 Mar 2004, 03:19 (Ref:898941)   #17
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Snrub should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSnrub should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
JV wouldn't have cost a fortune in 2004.
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Old 9 Mar 2004, 04:36 (Ref:898998)   #18
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Originally posted by TeddyG
Hey maybe they'll kick Ralf out early since he signed with Renault and JV will get the Williams drive, then you can see for yourself.
Talking of silly


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Originally posted by TeddyG

What do I have to base it on? An ex-world champ buddy who would wipe the floor with Sato anyday.
Well, so far, you have one race to go on, and Sato finished......in exactly the same place that Villeneuve did the previous season. That, to me, is not wiping the floor. Take off the rose-tinted glasses and get over the fact that Villeneuve is no longer in F1, and there are no signs indicating that he's coming back!
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Old 9 Mar 2004, 05:14 (Ref:899015)   #19
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I say give the two time to readjust personally. By Round 3, they should have hit their groove. (After all, testing isn't wheel to wheel racing.)
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Old 9 Mar 2004, 20:43 (Ref:899932)   #20
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Originally posted by Mr V
Talking of silly
Well there is a difference between ignorance and wishing something might happen.


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Originally posted by Mr V
Well, so far, you have one race to go on, and Sato finished......in exactly the same place that Villeneuve did the previous season. That, to me, is not wiping the floor.
Congratulations your silly comparison...is still silly!

The BAR of 2003 could not come close to compeating with any of the top four teams and Villeneuve's car only allowed him to finish 6 out of 16 races.
This year Button finished just over a second behind the BMW Williams of Montoya! Thus you cannot compare the results of Sato this year to Villeneuve last year, and if you really want to then JV is not equal but ahead of Sato in performance, (as Sato acheived his 9th place with a car that could have finished ahead of this position, JV did not have this luxury last year.)

Sato made obvious mistakes during the GP that I feel Villeneuve would most likely not have made due to his superior experience and as a former WDC. Of course this can never be proved but is at any rate a more sound argument than simply comparing the two by the order in which they finish over the season. I think most would agree JV would have done more with the BAR of this season than Sato did at the Aus GP.
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Doesn't it seem sad that drivers like Fisichella, Coultard, Barrichello, and Ralf all have secure seats in F1, despite having had race winning cars for many more seasons than Jacques, yet failing to chalk up as many wins as he (let alone a WDC) that it is Jacques who doesn't have a drive in F1??? Sad indeed.
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Old 10 Mar 2004, 11:33 (Ref:900703)   #21
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Originally posted by Mr V
How can you say i made a silly comparison, then go on to say that Villeneuve would definatly performed better :confused: What do you have to base this on?
Becasue he managed to finish in the same position last year in a much worse car...perhaps? Anybody who suggests Sato is better than Villeneuve is clearly out to lunch. Hell I've sort of like Sato and maybe just maybe Sato can develop into a great driver but there have been precious few signs of that. His stint at Jordan would have ended the career of any other driver. You gotta give it too Honda, they sure are loyal. You can bet Sato will return the favour if he makes it through the whole year.

Last edited by daniel27; 10 Mar 2004 at 11:41.
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