Drivers and Marshals

[Louis Agilais]

What's up with the marshals and drivers relationship? I've noticed for some years now and it has been bugging me since. It has happened countless times with countless different drivers in countless countries.

A driver retires either by accident, mechanical problem or whatever. A Marshal arrives to the scene and, apparently, approaches the driver (always assumed that that was to help him, show him the way to safety, but not quite sure about that either). And then the driver pushes him, sometimes rather brutely, inclunding some cases kicking him.

So, what's up with that? Is it just me or someone else also noticed that? What the hell is going on?

[GolddustMini]

Originally Posted by Louis Agilais

What's up with the marshals and drivers relationship? I've noticed for some years now and it has been bugging me since. It has happened countless times with countless different drivers in countless countries.

A driver retires either by accident, mechanical problem or whatever. A Marshal arrives to the scene and, apparently, approaches the driver (always assumed that that was to help him, show him the way to safety, but not quite sure about that either). And then the driver pushes him, sometimes rather brutely, inclunding some cases kicking him.

So, what's up with that? Is it just me or someone else also noticed that? What the hell is going on?

Adrenaline

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by GolddustMini

Adrenaline

Is there more of it about now?

[Piglet]

Kicking? Can you give an example of this from F1?

[Louis Agilais]

There's one I remember: after winning, Nigel Mansell decides to give a ride to Ayrton Senna (his car having stopped on the last lap), a Marshal goes there, I don't know why, maybe prevent that and Senna pushes him with the foot. And there's at least one more example of kicking I recall, although I can't quite place it (or who did it).

It's true that sometimes some Marshals seem rather inclined to touch the drivers, never understood why either.

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by Louis Agilais

There's one I remember: after winning, Nigel Mansell decides to give a ride to Ayrton Senna (his car having stopped on the last lap), a Marshal goes there, I don't know why, maybe prevent that and Senna pushes him with the foot. And there's at least one more example of kicking I recall, although I can't quite place it (or who did it).

It's true that sometimes some Marshals seem rather inclined to touch the drivers, never understood why either.

LOl...right...that's a nice modern example

[Louis Agilais]

your point being?

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by Louis Agilais

your point being?

That you're referring to an incident that happened 20 years ago as if it were something that happened recently. You indicate that there is a problem with drivers kicking marshals but can only evidence it with something 20 years old.

FWIW, marshals should be cautious when approaching drivers who have just had an "off" or a mechanical problem, they will be pumped up and may not behave entirely rationally. Marshals should also try to avoid actually touching drivers, nobody likes to be manhandled, especially if they are pumped up. Drivers need to try to retain some self control in that situation.

I see no evidence of a problem with F1 drivers kicking marshals.

[Louis Agilais]

Actually I indicated I've seen drivers pushing marshals rather regularly (mentioning some cases with kicking and not saying anything about being recently).

I haven't even said that there was a problem in that, just wondering if it's just me or if anyone else has noticed that.

Like I said they do seem to go over the line with the touching (I wouldn't like to be touched like that for no reason by someone I don't know) but for more than once, I felt a bit sorry for them. And just wondering if there's something more in this than some guys wanting to touch their heros and being pushed back by them.

[TrapezeArtist]

I don't see a problem. Fair enough some drivers behave in a rather touchy manner as they get out of the car, but I think everyone (marshals included) can understand that. It usually subsides after a few seconds.

[touringlegend]

I think the phrase too many cooks spoil the broth pops in my mind. Sometimes I feel when I see on TV marshals going to help a driver that all of them go like a bunch of sheep, when in reality it should only take 2, or maybe 3.

[gachjoel]

Originally Posted by Louis Agilais

It's true that sometimes some Marshals seem rather inclined to touch the drivers, never understood why either.

This i must agree with, after marshalling a well know meeting at a rather fast circuit.
i got home and watched the said event on a well known tv station
a well know said driver ends up in the recticel....driver not a happy chappy.
which is understandable.
marshals direct driver to an area of safety to which he adheres to.
as the driver was making his way to the safe area as instucted another marshal(not naming ranks) decided to give him a hand on the shoulder to hurry along.
driver gives an elbow gesture(no contact) as to back off.
at a time that a drivers Adrenaline is heightened, contact is not the best thing.
tho not intentional, its a some what natural reaction

[Hubble]

Originally Posted by Louis Agilais

What's up with the marshals and drivers relationship? I've noticed for some years now and it has been bugging me since. It has happened countless times with countless different drivers in countless countries.

A driver retires either by accident, mechanical problem or whatever. A Marshal arrives to the scene and, apparently, approaches the driver (always assumed that that was to help him, show him the way to safety, but not quite sure about that either). And then the driver pushes him, sometimes rather brutely, inclunding some cases kicking him.

So, what's up with that? Is it just me or someone else also noticed that? What the hell is going on?

I think you're making something out of nothing......there is no problem here......

[Louis Agilais]

yeah, probably not.

[racerkeke]

Louis, have a look at this thread in the Marshals' Forum:
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=128298

You'll see that the "red mist" isn't confined to F1. Although I am surprisingly proud of the fact I was nearly decked by Gerhard Berger in Montreal one year. Nope, didn't touch him. Just told him to get over the wall, because with two wheels hanging off it, the car wasn't going anywhere no matter what he wanted.

keke

[Louis Agilais]

Went to read it, and got a lot more enlighted about the subject. It was kind of what I was hoping for, thank you, racerkeke. (and I also expected this not to be exclusive of F1, of course).

after reading it made me think that, maybe, yes, it is an issue, despite people being pumped up and with adrenaline and all the other excuses; we are all accountable by our actions; nobody likes to be manhandled but if a citizen responds like that to a police officer manhandling him, he'll probably regret it (because of the consequences) and calm down and think better next time.

it always seemed a bit unfair never hearing about penalties or investigations regarding this kind of behaviour (and a bit disappointed with Race Director Charlie Whiting, Race Control and the Stewards for not taking care of their own).

enjoyed particularly the advices they gave on how to handle abusive drivers:

I have a technique that seems to work.

For a long while I have carried a couple of extra small bottles of water for when pink headed drivers come to a halt at the post.

Amazing how many I manage to give away and how much appreciated. Does much to calm the nerves.

[b1ackcr0w]

What Keke said is right on. Adrenaline and shock can turn the nicest people into monsters. Most of the guys on the bank will have had drivers get out of a wreck spitting fury and apparently fit as a fiddle. Ten minutes later when the red mist clears, they either turn back into pussy cats, or on a bad day realise they've got injuries, or even just flake out.

Behind the scenes, the driver/marshal relationships are actually some of the closest in the sport. The dramatic stuff around incidents is a strange twilight zone.

[Roths]

Originally Posted by Louis Agilais

What's up with the marshals and drivers relationship? I've noticed for some years now and it has been bugging me since. It has happened countless times with countless different drivers in countless countries.
So, what's up with that? Is it just me or someone else also noticed that? What the hell is going on?

From a marshals. We are the first person the driver sees when he gets out of the car. Every driver wants to finish a race and gets frustrated when they get knocked out. We expect that and can deal with it. After the driver has calmed down they virtually allways apologise and i have known drivers to buy marshals a drink at the end of the day or give them merchandise. Its not as bad as it used to be as drivers can be severely punished for it. They used to get away with it because the marshals are understanding and rarely report it but now with cameras everywhere the drivers are so much more behaved.

Originally Posted by Louis Agilais

There's one I remember: after winning, Nigel Mansell decides to give a ride to Ayrton Senna (his car having stopped on the last lap), a Marshal goes there, I don't know why, maybe prevent that and Senna pushes him with the foot. And there's at least one more example of kicking I recall, although I can't quite place it (or who did it).

It's true that sometimes some Marshals seem rather inclined to touch the drivers, never understood why either.

In regards to Ayrton Senna this was not actually a race official he kicked. This was back in the day when it was common for fans to invade the track after a race and if i recall this was a fan he didnt want getting between the wheels. Probably a good thing to push him away.

I will address the point of marshals touching. When i driver gets out of his car he doesnt normally know where the closest track exit is and as being on the track is very noisy and with helmets its limited visability you sometimes have to give the driver a tap to get his attention so you can guide him to the exit. Some drivers need more of a push as being hyped up with adrenaline and ****ed off they do stupid things like walk around their car into the track and i once had a driver who went out onto the track and threw his helmet at the car he thopught caused his crash when it came back around. It is the job of the marshal to get the track clear so racing can continue. Once the driver is out of the car his race is over so he too needs to be cleared off the track as soon as possible. Drivers can think they are invincable when they are pumped up and do some stupid things so if they are pondering around they need a push to get them off the track and stop interfering with us trying to get racing underway.