Michelin must improve

[Sodemo]

I think the main cause for the lack of performance from Mclaren, Williams, BAR and to a lesser extent Renault was the tyres.

Looking at Montoya, he stopped with 13 laps to go, after 2 laps he already had severe blisters on his left front tyre, the same can be seen on Ralf's car and the BAR's.

[BootsOntheSide]

There's nothing inherently wrong with Michelin's tyres in my view. This si simply a repeat of last year - codler conditions do favour Bridgestone, and Melbourne favours Ferrari anyway. Once we get to Europe for the summer months Michelin could have an advantage.

Also, remember that if the Michelins are even level with Bridgestone, there are between 4 and 8 cars poised to take points off Ferrari (and each other). I've seen nothing to make me doubt that there'll be another close season.

BAR's main problem seemed to be tyre degradation over long runs, which is a big concern, as it suggests that the car is inherently hard on tyres - expect them to struggle for race pace all seaosn, especially in hot races.

[HDTVKSS]

Is IT possible that Michelin have over committed themselves? They have no less that 4 top teams and a few smaller ones to look after. This means they have to make 4 X the amount of tyre compounds, go over 4 X the data, emply 4 X the engineers, deal with 4X the oppinions.... sure in bulk data they get alot more, but is that data usefull to them or a hinderance at the moment

whereas BStone have Fez and Sauber, who use the same tyre really and can have a whole company tailor make a tyre, concentrated totaly on them.

[Sodemo]

There must be something wrong with Michelin's tyres if they are blistering after 2 laps.
Sure if the tyres were just not performing as well as the Bridgestones then that would be easy to accept, however the Michelins were clearly in trouble on virtually all cars apart from the Renaults.

[Adam43]

Aparently (I think I heard this from Brundle when dullard shut up for a second) Bridgstone spent the winter with two development programs. One for the compound and nother for the construction of the tyre. It wasn't until Imola that they brought fruits of both programs together.

[Stephen Green]

Dont forget that the outside temperature at Melboure dropped by about 15 degrees C overnight and that hurt the Michelin runners a great deal.

[Suzy]

I'm sure it's just a blip - like Bridgestone had last year. I'm not panicing yet.

[Gt_R]

I agree. It's just the usual "Michelin better in hot weather/BS better in cool" trend. Unless BS maintains an advantage in hotter conditions do Michelin need to start to panic.

Furthermore, Michelin tyres were fast (as shown in qualifyings) and that the marked improvement BAR showed in the race also meant that the tyres are still very good.

As for their "over-committing" to too many teams, i don't think its likely. It probably benefits them more than not, afterall, Michelin is a huge company and is involved in MANY events outside F1. They could handle so much events, one team is unlikely to affect them too much.

Anyways, who honestly think they spent as much effort on Jaguar/Toyota who aren't as experienced and efficient in tyre testings as compared to the time spent with Renault/Williams/Mclaren?

[Redblurr]

there is mention of track temp - what about Sat qually 39 degrees - Ferrari still beat them

[Gt_R]

Barely, in fact, JPM beat MS in first quals.

And then there was the fact that besides Ferrari, no other BS teams got into the top 10.

[pole2pole]

Lets hope we are in for a hot summer so the michelins can work better. On that first qualifying session i really think that MS didnt push i think ferrari wanted to see where williams pace would be

[Bononi]

Originally posted by Gt_R
I agree. It's just the usual "Michelin better in hot weather/BS better in cool" trend. Unless BS maintains an advantage in hotter conditions do Michelin need to start to panic.

Furthermore, Michelin tyres were fast (as shown in qualifyings) and that the marked improvement BAR showed in the race also meant that the tyres are still very good.

As for their "over-committing" to too many teams, i don't think its likely. It probably benefits them more than not, afterall, Michelin is a huge company and is involved in MANY events outside F1. They could handle so much events, one team is unlikely to affect them too much.

Anyways, who honestly think they spent as much effort on Jaguar/Toyota who aren't as experienced and efficient in tyre testings as compared to the time spent with Renault/Williams/Mclaren?

I couldn't have said better...

[shiny side up!]

Originally posted by HDTVKSS
Is IT possible that Michelin have over committed themselves? They have no less that 4 top teams and a few smaller ones to look after. This means they have to make 4 X the amount of tyre compounds, go over 4 X the data, emply 4 X the engineers, deal with 4X the oppinions....

Michelin has said time and again that they do not bring that many compounds to a race. They have found that typically, if a team requests a change to the tires, or tests a new compound/construction for Michelin and finds favorable results, those characteristics good for one team are good for all the other teams. Although the FIA rules allow them the lattitude to make a different tire for each team, they do not, in reality, even try to do that.

[shiny side up!]

And on another thought entirely:

Will one of the big-name Michelin Teams consider switching to Bstone next year? Everyone switched becuase Ferrari was getting all of Bstone's attention, and to have a chance at beating Ferrari, you needed some advantage and Michelin seemed to be an opportunity. But if each team is getting the same tires from their manufacturer, and if the manufacturers are fairly even (Bstone better in hot/wet, Michelin better in mild temps), what is the advantage of all the top teams fighting Ferrari being on the same tire?

[Gt_R]

I thought that perhaps it is possible for Toyota to make the switch. They are the only team capable of exerting themselves to "force" BS to not neglect them , by offering incentives of being a full Jap Works team/access to supply all Toyota cars with BS/etc.

I've said before too that though different teams are allowed to have specifically designed tyres by their own supplier, the similarities of F1 cars meant that the tyres required by different teams are not as different as many thought. Usually what compounds that work well for one would work well for another team, just needing some fine-tunings to suit. Michelin themselves pointed out that they don't require many different types of tyres.

Hence, Jordan/Minardi actually could benefit from having fully tested & developed tyres for use, rather than rely on themselves to develope it (they simply don't have the $). And in fact, by adapting their cars to the tyres developed by Ferrari, Jordan/Minardi are actually making their cars improving the right direction...the Ferrari way.

[bosch!]

Michelin will improve when the weather improves. All racing designs are about compromise and work better in different conditions. Having said that BS have improved by about 2 sec over last years AGP times, which makes michelins 1 sec improvement look like they are going backwards.

[Redblurr]

Michelin have not won a race since Hungary 2003

[Redblurr]

Alonso's tyre after race

[Led ZeppF1]

Originally posted by Redblurr
Michelin have not won a race since Hungary 2003

You right.

But if we talk about possibility michelin (FW25/Montoya) had a chance, big chance, to win in Suzuka if the car wasnt breakdown.

[Gt_R]

Indy was down to wet weather where BS is much better. Monza was a close contest for the race win until something strange happened. Japan Michelin runners pace is equal to that of BS and Montoya had a big chance.

Haha..2003..sounds like a very long time ago when effectively it's only 3 races.

That said, it's a good thing/sign that BS started to switch to squarer and broader tyres this season.

[Redblurr]

yes they have two types - one as before and as you say the squarer one

[bosch!]

Michelin have not won a race since Hungary 2003

Which i guess means that nobody apart from Ferrari has won since Hungary 2003. Maybe this is the issue.

[grumpy1]

Ladies and Gents
Lets put this into perspective.You are all worried about the fact it appears B/S are miles ahead.Take nothing away from Ferrari because there car is better by miles.
Michelin bought with them 4 compounds for dry tyres 1 for inters and 2 for wet as per the rules.The partner teams request which compounds they want.If they get it wrong its on them.BAR on the other hand are a customer team so they purchase what they want and bring it with them.Two teams ran the same compound(Williams,Renualt)and suffered chipping
and blistering.Both are caused by a compound with x opperating temp being run at the higher y temp. This higher temp could have been caused by incorrect compound selection or incorrect opperating pressure.
BAR and Jaguar suffered none of these problems due to running a slightly harder tyre with a cooler temp range.
See if you can find a picture of a Sauber at the end of the race because they had the same problem as Williams Renualt.
So its down to the teams and tyre selection not the supplier.

The Grumpy1

[Sodemo]

Whether Michelin will admit it or not I believe that something was fundamentally wrong with the tyres they brought to Australia.
I have never seen tyres that develop severe blisters after 2 laps on virtually all cars, they must have got their sums wrong at some point because it was poor show even considering the weather conditions.