[WEC] BR1 Dallara LMP1

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Turbodcc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gm95...ature=youtu.be

Very similar line to the one Isaakyan found himself on, and same result.

Not sure if it's been mentioned here previously, but according to Daily Sportscar's article on the topic, the BR1 completed two backflips while airborne. Scary scary scary, and Isaakyan is one very lucky boy!

[XtC24]

Doesn,t look good for Lmp1 as these are 3 cars on the grid.

Button was supposed to test yesterday, right?
Do we know if he did?

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by XtC24

Doesn,t look good for Lmp1 as these are 3 cars on the grid.

Button was supposed to test yesterday, right?
Do we know if he did?

Straight from the man himself: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bil8in7hObT/ (yes he did, apparently around 5h in the car through the day)

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Turbodcc

Wait to see what the team comes up with but from that video, he's carrying a lot of speed, off-line, in a bad position to be behind a Toyota that has just punched a hole through the air.

It was mentioned in one of the news postings that the painted lines are using a very thick slightly raised paint, I would assume to ensure that going off-line prevents cars from gaining an advantage without damaging them. If that's the only thing that triggered the launch, then Spa simply needs to find an alternative solution.

I could see the paint alone being the problem with how sensitive these cars are aerodynamically, but the cars have been so greatly adapted to overcoming the drawbacks of the anti-takeoff features that I think it's past time to do some fresh research into the matter to make sure the aerodynamic trends(particularly the ones being followed by Toyota, Ginetta, and Dallara) aren't about to render those features inadequate - assuming they haven't already.

[Steve McQ]

Come on, have you seen how thick thos stripes are ? They are pretty flat to me.



However, having seen N. Zlobin flyover from a different angle, it seems that there is a bump in the runoff that may be deadly combined with the stripes : if you hit it with the flatfloor, you take off immediately.

Here is the video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoeZnRjpCJQ

[S griffin]

Can’t be coincidence it’s happened twice at the same point. Maybe the fact that it’s tarmac run off doesn’t help, as drivers tend to use that quite a bit

[Bentley03]

The historic evidence is certainly pointing towards there being something there which is causing cars to fly, and that it just happened to be a BR1 on this occasion, as opposed to there being a fundamental problem with the BR1 itself.

[GingerPixel]

I'd imagine that any bump that causes the front wheels to bounce up would, at that speed, put enough air under a flat floored car to cause an issue.

The photo of the Aston climbing the hill with an airborne LMP1 in the background is crazy and terrifying.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Can’t be coincidence it’s happened twice at the same point. Maybe the fact that it’s tarmac run off doesn’t help, as drivers tend to use that quite a bit

That has to be the main focus of the investigation at this point. I still think the Dragonspeed crash is unrelated and it was just a coincidence that two BR cars had bad wrecks this past weekend.

[XtC24]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Straight from the man himself: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bil8in7hObT/ (yes he did, apparently around 5h in the car through the day)

Jenson seems not to be worried and looks like he is quite happy with the BR1.

[Damian Baldi]

Another picture of the BR1-Gibson of DragonSpeed, and how big the damage was.

[Mike E]

Laurens Vanthoor has taken to Twitter regarding the flying Russian. He reckons it is caused by the painted stripes and ripples across the run off area. I think the ripples may actually be grooves in the tarmac surface as used at some other tracks (but I could be wrong).
He says it almost happened to him in a GT car...

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Interesting, perhaps a change to the track rather than the car is needed.

[chernaudi]

If that's the case, I'd change the run off area in regards to the bumps, though there seems to be a dip or a bump on the pavement itself that combined with the curbing/strips that can get a car airborne.

Considering that it happened with an open wheel car in basically the same spot seems to indicate that it's a problem with the track surface, and not a car issue.

I just hope that the FIA and those involved don't make a knee-jerk reaction and neuter the corner any further. After all, this is the first prototype blow over in nearly 20 years, so the aero measures IMO have worked well.

Also brings into question respecting track limits, though at the same time you do need safe run off room without huge dips or bumps for if something breaks or something happens to the car where you have to go off line.

[Damian Baldi]

Here is the video of the accident of the Euroformula, the mechanism of the accident is exactly the same.


The car takes the run off area, goes over the sausages and at some point (maybe because the suspension resonance) the front of the car rises the the flip begins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gm95i9GOMNg

[S griffin]

Very lucky he didn’t slide back onto the track

[PascaLM]

They just have to remove the Raidillon...

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Steve McQ

Come on, have you seen how thick thos stripes are ? They are pretty flat to me.

How old is that picture? The stripes in it look older and worn. The stripes were repainted this year and were made deliberately thicker to to the job of the now-removed rough curbs

[Akrapovic]

At 180 mph whilst going over a crest (note that the part he ran over has a more sudden crest than the circuit does) you don't need a big bump. We've seen Formula cars do that, and they aren't prone to that sort of thing. No amount of fins and holes would've stopped that accident.



You can see the very very slight rise as the crest of the hill goes to the left towards the barrier. It isn't much but it makes that crest slightly sharper.

There's only so much abuse you can give a 200mph car with that much aero before it starts doing mad things.

The strips aren't big, but on a crest that sudden they are significant. You could leave the circuit 100% as it is and lower the crest on the runoff and it'd probably help a lot.

[blankfile]

saw a formula renault 2.0 car nearly flip on that bit aswell and that hit the wall on the other side aswell right where the br1 ended up

[Purist]

I'm trying find, in general terms, minimum apex speeds for LMP1s in the Eau Rouge-Raidillon and Blanchimont sections.

As with Tertre Rouge at Le Mans, it definitely looks like both combinations actually used to be significantly tighter/slower than they are now. (Part of that would certainly seem to be in an attempt to add run-off room, but maybe it's had some unintended consequences, like the accident we're discussing now.)

Going by the GT telemetry from last year's race broadcast, the left-hander at Raidillon proper has the lowest apex speed, whereas it used to be the right-hander in the middle of the sequence that was the slowest.

I think the greatest alteration to Blanchimont may have been going from 1978 to '79, but with the change in scale for the track diagrams, it's hard to tell. Eau Rouge was eased quite a bit for 1983, and then a little more going into 1995.

If there's a ridge there in the run-off, that's really not a good thing, but I also think it's important that the drivers not be able to take the run-off and cut the corner at absolute full-tilt.

I think they should have a damn good look at the front end on that Dallara chassis to see what they can do there. I also wonder if there would be a reasonable way to provide just slightly more give in those tire barriers, perhaps. As to the run-off itself, at some level, my personal preference would be for a gravel trap that, well, traps out-of-control vehicles.

The thought has also occurred to me that maybe the FIA or someone should do research into some kind of gel or foam type material that errant vehicles would sink into a bit, thus slowing them, but hopefully causing fewer issues than strewing pea gravel everywhere.

Things on this front would be a bit easier, too, if the FIA would just nix the "no outside assistance" rule. If you're caught up in some sort of arresting run-off, and lose time/places by default, I'm satisfied with that as an automatic penalty for going out of bounds.

[S griffin]

I think Eau Rouge was widened in 83, then after that awful chicane in 94, it was narrowed to give more runoff in 95

[Purist]

The backup of the old racingcircuits.net I have bookmarked, and that still works, has seen limited updates; basically, new F1 circuits have been added and existing ones have seen the pages updated. Anyway, it clearly shows that the shape of Eau Rouge-Raidillon was altered from 1982 to 1983, making the sequence less severe. And this alteration could make sense, since 1983 was the first year F1 returned to Spa after 1970.

Hopefully this works:
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk/racingcircuits/

The page has something else I'd never seen before, a delineation of the 1921-24 and 1925-29 layouts, with the change in the lead up to Eau Rouge illustrated.

[Steve McQ]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

How old is that picture? The stripes in it look older and worn. The stripes were repainted this year and were made deliberately thicker to to the job of the now-removed rough curbs

There is a Billy Monger tribute sticker on the car, so it's kind of recent I reckon. As I said in my previous post, I think it's more a combination of different things (exactly what Akrapovic wrote right up) than just these white stripes. That runoff area surely needs a bit of rethink. Why not putting back a gravel trap ?

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Steve McQ

There is a Billy Monger tribute sticker on the car, so it's kind of recent I reckon.

Those stickers have been around sicne his accident last year. To my knowledge the repainting was done THIS year.

I think it's more a combination of different things (exactly what Akrapovic wrote right up) than just these white stripes.

I don't disagree, I'm just saying that when you think about how sensitive these cars are, we should not be too quick to dismiss the possibility that the thicker paint is the sole cause.

Why not putting back a gravel trap ?

Because gravel traps damage cars, can cause them to dig in and flip, and sometimes have even had cars skip over them and hit walls at nearly unabated speed like they just slid over wet grass. All of these matters not only drive up repair costs for teams, but also increase the likelihood of needing a safety car/FCY.

Paved runoffs, on the other hand, do a far better job of slowing cars without causing other potential problems and leaving them in a condition to clear the track quickly enough to not require neutralizing the race.

So long as the car doesn't find another way to take flight, that is.