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17 Jan 2019, 12:50 (Ref:3876896) | #1 | ||
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I was seated next to Duncan W’s business partner (from memory- that’s how I think he described himself) at the Jag Challenge do, and appears they have another side to the business running motoring events, like for instance the LR anniversary do at Gaydon (I think) last year. And of course they now run the racing side of Donington HF, and I believe the Thruxton Revival this year as well. I see them taking over admin of Carol’s series as a positive move, but whether the U2TC grid numbers improve- that’s another question!
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17 Jan 2019, 12:57 (Ref:3876897) | #2 | ||
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Yes, I agree it is positive. Also I concur, the advent of seriously quick Lotus Cortinas (as opposed to simply very quick) has had the expected result on entries.
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17 Jan 2019, 12:59 (Ref:3876898) | #3 | ||
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We did have a single Alfa take the fight to them last year. Maybe that will encourage a few others out!
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17 Jan 2019, 13:13 (Ref:3876899) | #4 | ||
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17 Jan 2019, 16:02 (Ref:3876900) | #5 | ||
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17 Jan 2019, 16:40 (Ref:3876901) | #6 | |||
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I think the Furiani Alfas are the quickest? Will be interesting if one turns up in PA 60s Endurance again- would a real contender for the under 2.5 litre class championship. |
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17 Jan 2019, 17:53 (Ref:3876902) | #7 | ||
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This brings up back to a very old Simon H post suggesting it would be good to stop Corvinas' development. And Zef' mentioned that with a front runner he had before, now he can just finish around the tenth place. Lets stick to facts and only facts. Previously, already overdeveloped Tisa's could win. Ten years later they can't anymore. What has been discovered on the Lotus bloc since? A f-good question, isn't it Mike?
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18 Jan 2019, 07:48 (Ref:3876911) | #8 | ||
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Sorry for what was obviously off topic and thank you for this one!
I hope this very interesting series will go on. I had a look to the lap times achieved on a track many here know, Dijon. May be twelve years ago, 1'48 with a Cortina was enough to make you a winner. In 2007, with Dany Snobeck we made something like 1'42", second best time for a Cortina, best was 1'41" a day no-one could match JO's Tisa. Today, 1'41" can be rated as average if not bad the target being 1'38"5. The track has been improved of course, but probably not by ten seconds. May be the rules "no cheating, no complaining" were not clear enough… |
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18 Jan 2019, 07:48 (Ref:3876912) | #9 | ||
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Seem to get good entries at likes of Silverstone and DHF but struggled at the Algarve meet for example.Don't really know why so I'll leave ita t that.😁
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18 Jan 2019, 10:59 (Ref:3876937) | #10 | |||
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Quote:
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18 Jan 2019, 11:50 (Ref:3876946) | #11 | ||
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They all run the same tyres and the regs are pretty much unchanged. I suspect, rather similar to the RS2000 the biggest gain is in the block; as such the Beemers and Alfas don't have an alternative.
I'm happy to be corrected here. |
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18 Jan 2019, 12:00 (Ref:3876947) | #12 | ||
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Firstly, thank you Peter for moving this discussion from the calendar thread!
I doubt tyres have anything to do with the reduction in lap times in U2TC, as the requirement to use only Dunlop L or M section crossplies hasn’t changed, and second, since production moved away from the UK, the quality of the tyres, in my experience, has fallen. What has happened, as I see it, is firstly that an increase in horsepower has been found in the Lotus twin Cam engine. Secondly, modern touring car preparers starting building cars using their high-tech facilities and expertise gained from BTCC and the like. Nothing wrong with that, but it’s moved the game on and made it difficult, if not impossible, for individuals and ‘traditional’ preparers to compete. Just add a current pro driver into the mix, and you’ve got a reduction in lap times.... |
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18 Jan 2019, 12:19 (Ref:3876955) | #13 | ||
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The other thing I wanted to add, is a more general observation on the way Historic racing has changed. When I first came across U2TC, there was a diverse variety of cars competing, but slowly those that are not capable of running at the front have disappeared. Happens in other series as well, maybe because the race entry costs are so high now that competitors will only race in a car that can be competitive? Or is it the case that historic racing has moved away from simply the enjoyment of competing for fun in an old car against like minded people?
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18 Jan 2019, 12:21 (Ref:3876956) | #14 | ||||
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If I may:
Quote:
Quote:
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18 Jan 2019, 12:57 (Ref:3876969) | #15 | ||
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18 Jan 2019, 12:58 (Ref:3876970) | #16 | ||
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18 Jan 2019, 13:18 (Ref:3876975) | #17 | |||
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Absolutely that, Mike. The problem lies mainly with the ingress of wealthy people/ professional teams pushing the boundaries at no expense spared. The multi preppers have made access to racing for the wealthy non-mechanically minded individuals much easier. Previously they would find a mate or pay a mechanic for prepping/race day attendance. But that sort of help doesn't have access to the sort of racecar development available to the pro teams. |
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18 Jan 2019, 16:43 (Ref:3877018) | #18 | |||
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As to Tisa's when you see what kind of parts are available to increase the power, its surprising to say the least. As you said, weight is the major issue. Did you race a Cortina, Mike? I love this car. |
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18 Jan 2019, 17:01 (Ref:3877021) | #19 | |||
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Gerard, I’ve never had the privilege to race a Cortina. Only saloons have been Escorts. They’re just about OK |
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18 Jan 2019, 17:11 (Ref:3877025) | #20 | ||
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Depending on the category/tyres I guess they are very similar. One good point for the Cortina, they can go sideways without altering the lap times. Well, not too much!
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18 Jan 2019, 18:25 (Ref:3877039) | #21 | |||
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For the last season or two it’s all been about the Fords (happy to be corrected on that), but what’s to say that if another make or model suddenly becomes ‘the one to beat’, the front runners won’t all ditch their current mounts and transfer to that..... |
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18 Jan 2019, 18:31 (Ref:3877042) | #22 | ||
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You could be correct. I don't know anyone, including Patrick Watts, who has been invited to the 77MM. So that's at least two Rovers and one Capri omitted from the regulars.
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18 Jan 2019, 19:12 (Ref:3877049) | #23 | ||
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How could another car compete against a GTA or a Cortina becoming the one to beat in U2TC? A Cooper in the wet. And… And nothing else, because a winning Alfa or Cortina makes a result "period correct". May be "encouraging" a Fiesta or a Golf GTI becomes a good thing for the show. The anoraks won't be happy finding this ridiculous but who is the targeted public?
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18 Jan 2019, 19:55 (Ref:3877064) | #24 | ||
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I was being hypothetical, Gerard. Pre 66 and under 2 litres narrows the choice of potential ‘winning’ cars, obviously. But if (somehow) the BMW or Alfa engine suddenly found enough extra power to regularly beat the Fords, would the so called Pros change over to whatever?
I’ve been trying to find up to date regs for the series, but most recent that come up are for 2017. Then, there was a ‘U2TC Challenge’ Championship, which awarded extra points for various reasons (such as an older car), but not sure if this is still the case. I’m wondering if by winning a smaller capacity class consistently the driver can win the championship.... |
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18 Jan 2019, 20:23 (Ref:3877074) | #25 | ||
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To beat the Fords as they are now, few alternative in fact. Forget the Tisa, even not compliant, it can't be a front runner. I dont know if the Pedrazzani "brick" to reinforce the GTA bloc (or the modification made by Alfaholics) is allowed and can't say if it will give extra power rather than extra reliability. Another solution is to reinforce scrutineering, old debate. Or bring back a handicap scale as used if I'm correct in BTCC and french Production for instance. Additional weight could be considered after each race.
I guess the pros are only interested in the overall win. Because they come to make business, what do they want to sell and what is their average client's profile? Modern sponsoring is not allowed. |
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