Manufacturers

[mac]

Am I the only one in here that could not give a rat's backside about the Ford v Holden rubbish?

[deeks6]

I suspect not ... I'm over it too.

The fact is there are very few, if any actual Ford or Holden components on a Supertaxi. In fact I doubt whether there is one actual factory part on a V8SC that you would find on a Falcon or Commodore. For goodness sake, the Commodore is actually shorter than a real one.

The only time manufacturers will become relevant again is with a proper Production series.

[Bimmerhead]

Originally Posted by deeks6

The only time manufacturers will become relevant again is with a proper Production series.

Here, here!! And it might mean we get some decent racing into the bargain!!

[Green Hornet]

Originally Posted by deeks6

IFor goodness sake, the Commodore is actually shorter than a real one..

I think you will find the Falcon is too.

Originally Posted by deeks6

The only time manufacturers will become relevant again is with a proper Production series.

This is already one . . . and nobody seems to care about that either.

[Bevan-L]

Originally Posted by mac

Am I the only one in here that could not give a rat's backside about the Ford v Holden rubbish?

nup i'm with ya, but the std issue bogan still believes a V8SC is exactly like his falcon/holden road car.

[Chris - Melb]

No, I'm not over the Red/Blue rivalry in the least!

As drivers and teams disappear, it's the main constant that keeps me interested.

[GtiMagic]

Originally Posted by deeks6

In fact I doubt whether there is one actual factory part on a V8SC that you would find on a Falcon or Commodore.

I think the only unmodified or unaltered parts are grills (except 888 of course ), head and tail lights, side mirrors and door handles.

And the Ford V Holden thing is near dead, and must be if the V8Supercar show is to continue to grow. With the car of tomorrow emerging in a year or two and new manufacturers being encouraged to play we will begin to see more of Driver v Driver promotion/marketing rather than Ford v Holden.

The cars are no longer the stars, it's the drivers' show.

[mac]

While I am sick of the rivalry garbage, I absolutely support BOTH manufacturers for their decisions to be heavily involved in motorsport. In this country, manufacturers are vital to such a healthy main series... especially in an environment when it would be very easy to pull the pin on something as frivolous as motorsport.

My qualm is not with the manufacturers themselves, but the surrounding circus.

I still fail to see how a person can be so disliked just because of the badge on the front of their car...

[Chris - Melb]

Without the rivalry, why would a manufacturer want to be in sport? The benefits would be severely reduced. It's all about building passion for the brand.

I wouldn't think about buying anything other than a Ford, even though it may not necessarily be a Falcon.

As for drivers changing manufacturers, motor racing is no different to any other sport. Do you think Collingwood supporters would embrace one of their popular players switching sides and playing for Carlton? Of course not!

Originally Posted by mac

While I am sick of the rivalry garbage, I absolutely support BOTH manufacturers for their decisions to be heavily involved in motorsport. In this country, manufacturers are vital to such a healthy main series... especially in an environment when it would be very easy to pull the pin on something as frivolous as motorsport.

My qualm is not with the manufacturers themselves, but the surrounding circus.

I still fail to see how a person can be so disliked just because of the badge on the front of their car...

[mac]

I knew someone would bring up the football support thing... Maniacal support for any team leaves me baffled.

I support a particular football team because I am from that region and it represents where I come from. I still watch and admire players from other teams though...

Cars are completely inanimate objects representative of virtually nothing. I have plenty of preferences in regard to cars, but that is not going to make me feel negatively to the opposition... In fact, while I am a lover of Ferrari road cars, I don't have any great fondness for the Ferrari F1 team.

As for why manufacturers go racing - well racing is the only real practical demonstration of a company's products and abilities.

Sport, by its nature, is rivalry - the only rivalries that interest me in V8s are team vs team and driver vs driver, because frankly they are the only real differentiating factors in the sport.

Look at F1 - the single biggest rivalry is Ferrari and McLaren. Do you think Ferrari's road car division gives two hoots about Mercedes-Benz's road car division? They are not even really in the same market - in fact, most Ferrari owners probably have a Merc S-Class in the garage as well...

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by mac

I knew someone would bring up the football support thing... Maniacal support for any team leaves me baffled.

I support a particular football team because I am from that region and it represents where I come from. I still watch and admire players from other teams though...

Cars are completely inanimate objects representative of virtually nothing. I have plenty of preferences in regard to cars, but that is not going to make me feel negatively to the opposition... In fact, while I am a lover of Ferrari road cars, I don't have any great fondness for the Ferrari F1 team.

As for why manufacturers go racing - well racing is the only real practical demonstration of a company's products and abilities.

Sport, by its nature, is rivalry - the only rivalries that interest me in V8s are team vs team and driver vs driver, because frankly they are the only real differentiating factors in the sport.

Look at F1 - the single biggest rivalry is Ferrari and McLaren. Do you think Ferrari's road car division gives two hoots about Mercedes-Benz's road car division? They are not even really in the same market - in fact, most Ferrari owners probably have a Merc S-Class in the garage as well...

Football clubs are inanimate objects too. Whatever emotions we attach to following and spectating sport we do as individual reasons, which are as varied as the individuals themselves. Those reasons are as valid as each other.

Ferrari have not given two hoots about anyone else for some time. They don't have to. It's been proven time and again that their name and image transcends the sport and are very much a one-off case. Once you remove Ferrari you have Mercedes, BMW, Renault and Toyota. Do they care about each other's market place position? Of course they do.

[Chris - Melb]

You took the words right out of my mouth; I was about to write the same thing - Well said.

Originally Posted by Falcadore

Whatever emotions we attach to following and spectating sport we do as individual reasons, which are as varied as the individuals themselves. Those reasons are as valid as each other.

[Pro Racer]

i couldn't care if more manufactuer's joined, it would be good for the series.

[Bevan-L]

Originally Posted by Pro Racer

i couldn't care if more manufactuer's joined, it would be good for the series.

BUT RED vs BLUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Conrod Kieron]

Originally Posted by GtiMagic

And the Ford V Holden thing is near dead, and must be if the V8Supercar show is to continue to grow. With the car of tomorrow emerging in a year or two and new manufacturers being encouraged to play we will begin to see more of Driver v Driver promotion/marketing rather than Ford v Holden.

The cars are no longer the stars, it's the drivers' show.

I don't agree at all, and this is proven by the MASSIVE fan backlash JW/888 have put up with.

sure there will be people who are 'over it', sure there will be people who a race/driver or team fans but i'd suggest the vast majority of V8SC followers are manufacturer followers.

If the cars arn't the stars, then one would expect a one make series with all the team/drivers would be just as strong, i'd suggest the circus would collapse if that happend.

I seriously doubt Ford vs Toyota OR Holden vs Toyota would fly neither, in either case, your going to loose a massive amount of fans from either camp.

[racer69]

It might be supposedly dead amongst the die-hards, but amongst the casual fans Ford v Holden is still the driving force behind it all. If Craig Lowndes had gone to FPR it wouldn't have rated a mention in the casual media, but as he'd "gone back to Holden" i had many friends, with bugger all interest in the sport, asking me what i thought (and ribbing me as they know i back the Fords )

[DAVID PATERSON]

I'm well & truly over the whole red v. blue thing. In fact my daily driver is a Ford and my weekend toy is a Holden! I'm more interested in cars than badges.

[gomick]

I have always followed the drivers not the make of car. Am a big Whincup fan & it doesnt bother me one little bit that he will be in a Holden next year - have said for ages that i would like a toyota v8 to enter aswell...

[xrystl]

I've been following local "Australian touring car" racing since the early sixties , I now find it too hard to concentrate on the racing because of all the added periphals = compusory pit stops , semi choice of tyre , rules for tv , vague driving standards rules interpretation , safety cars used for other than safety.
When we used to have car racing (not entertainment) it used to be the best/smartest driver/team would win on the day , now to me it seems to a bit of a raffle as another 3 seconds in the pits can take you from 5th place to 15th which removes the driver from equation ; maybe I'm just too old for change !! I did like it the way it used to be - particulary the first Sunday in October , For 25 years I planned my holidays around this date so that I would be in a location that I could watch the race ; not so important now, as now it's become a 20 lap sprint after the last safety car , the race has lost it's magic for me.

[Sultan]

Have to agree with you xrstl, like everything else its basically been 'dumbed down'...

I used to religiously watch all touring car racing but especially the last year or 2 its beginning to look like watching re runs - Still great fun, but not quite the same...

[Chris - Melb]

I agree with you both. They are turning it into a lottery, not a motor race.

It is almost got to the point where I can't bear watching it any more; something I couldn't imagine happening even a couple of years ago.

The compulsory pitstops started the rot, but it's just getting worse.

[peckstar]

how have pit stops changed things? I have never undestood that argument,

[Chris - Melb]

It's not that hard. Do your pitstop at a fortunate time in relation to safety car periods and you get an 'unfair' advantage.

Also, a motor race should be between racing drivers, not pit crew.

It would be a bit like having off-field training staff involved in the game of football ( which is a true team sport). You don't see anyone other than football players affecting the result of a football match, do you?

[peckstar]

if you lose time in a pit stop due to a safety car then you are stupid, there is no unfair advantage.

Sure you do, you see coaches making decisions about who to bring on and off and pick up which player etc, you see water people and medical stuff running out to people passing on advice providing sustinence etc.

if you want a race without pit stops , what you mean is you want a 15 minute race, which probably suits someone with a short attention span

[Chris - Melb]

Actually, I like seeing long races and don't get bored, even if the race becomes processional.

These artificial means of 'mixing things up' and 'improving the show' are designed for people that have short attention spans, i.e. young people, or people who only have a casual interest in the sport.

None of your football analogies work, as none of them physically help the ball go through the goalposts, unlike pit crews who 'physically' (time wise) get the car closer to the finish line first.

A team manager talking to his driver on the radio does not physically alter the ontrack performance, nor do the 'runners' in football.