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Old 28 Apr 2022, 06:00 (Ref:4108290)   #1
mite5255
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Should Targa Tasmania be scrapped? Debate rages again after another race tragedy

Views on this article https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-...eath/101021692
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Old 28 Apr 2022, 09:01 (Ref:4108300)   #2
Casper
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Good arguments could be put up for both sides of the debate but then we have events such as the Isle of Man TT where fatalities are almost accepted as routine. In the end it will come down to the political climate in Tasmania and how much they are prepared to stomach when the criticism gets really wound up. It is an interesting observation that conventional rallies don't seem to have fatalities or at least not any that I am aware of though I don't follow the sport these days even if it was my first love when I was younger.

Last edited by Casper; 28 Apr 2022 at 09:13.
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Old 28 Apr 2022, 12:35 (Ref:4108320)   #3
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Originally Posted by Casper View Post
Good arguments could be put up for both sides of the debate but then we have events such as the Isle of Man TT where fatalities are almost accepted as routine. In the end it will come down to the political climate in Tasmania and how much they are prepared to stomach when the criticism gets really wound up. It is an interesting observation that conventional rallies don't seem to have fatalities or at least not any that I am aware of though I don't follow the sport these days even if it was my first love when I was younger.
This may be the real solution - make it a proper tarmac rally + touring event.
Car and drivers / navigators (licenced) to spec as appropriate.
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Old 28 Apr 2022, 20:54 (Ref:4108347)   #4
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This may be the real solution - make it a proper tarmac rally + touring event.
Car and drivers / navigators (licenced) to spec as appropriate.
What is the difference between a tarmac rally and touring event
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Old 28 Apr 2022, 22:48 (Ref:4108353)   #5
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A different report I read said that the driver had been a regular competitor (FWTW), so lack of experience wouldn't seem to be a major contributor. The photo there showed the car on its roof, apparently flattened - however that could be misleading.

Nevertheless, I would have thought the question of cages would be central to the future shape of the event. That would highly controversial for the 'classic' sections of the event. Though it should be noted that a cage did not save Peter Brock.

Friend of mine has competed in the touring side, no overtaking, follow an official car which sets the speed of the group, and keep to the speed limit. Having driven those roads, sometimes at highly illegal speeds, I can sympathise with the 'press on' mentality, especially in the environment of a formal competitive event and the pressures that can build in competitors. Add the situation shown in the ABC photo, wet roads slippery with euc oil, and ... you get these things happening, sometimes with serious results.
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Old 29 Apr 2022, 02:51 (Ref:4108378)   #6
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Eucalyptus oil on the road is a real hazard or a joy to be had depending on the circumstances of encountering it. Many years ago I was at Mansfield (IIRC) waiting for a rally to start and someone discovered a length of road that had eucalyptus oil on it and everyone had a bundle of fun practising spins but encounter it without warning and all you can do is wait for the impact to happen unless you are extremely lucky.
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Old 9 May 2022, 00:30 (Ref:4109307)   #7
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Eucalyptus oil on the road is a real hazard or a joy to be had depending on the circumstances of encountering it. Many years ago I was at Mansfield (IIRC) waiting for a rally to start and someone discovered a length of road that had eucalyptus oil on it and everyone had a bundle of fun practising spins but encounter it without warning and all you can do is wait for the impact to happen unless you are extremely lucky.
A friend of mine arcs up about roadside trees and in particular, overhanging "widow-maker" branches...I tend to agree, but his requirement for about 50 metres of cleared land either side of roads, is probably economically and politically unachievable! As long as you have people operating vehicles, there will be accidents and deaths. Autonomous vehicles could be WORSE if introduced too early!

https://www.examiner.com.au/story/75...ities-in-2022/
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Old 9 May 2022, 05:45 (Ref:4109322)   #8
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A friend of mine arcs up about roadside trees and in particular, overhanging "widow-maker" branches...I tend to agree, but his requirement for about 50 metres of cleared land either side of roads, is probably economically and politically unachievable! As long as you have people operating vehicles, there will be accidents and deaths.
Aint gunna happen.

I have had a professional involvement in funding roads. Widening a rural road within a road reserve should be a 'no problem' upgrade, but the road reserve is seen as a wildlife refuge, and a corridor for the furry things to move from place to place.

As a result some widening doesn't happen, and/or happens more slowly and more expensively, and/or happens to a more limited extent.

In the city it might involve some or all of the above, with added noise walls ...
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Old 9 May 2022, 05:52 (Ref:4109324)   #9
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This topic reminds me of the response of a very experienced Prodsports driver of my acquaintance, who did one back in the early days.

The gist was that he thought the drivers were all mad, he was scared sh!tless trying to keep up, and he was never going to go back (and as far as I am aware he never did go back).
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Old 9 May 2022, 07:25 (Ref:4109337)   #10
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This topic reminds me of the response of a very experienced Prodsports driver of my acquaintance, who did one back in the early days.

The gist was that he thought the drivers were all mad, he was scared sh!tless trying to keep up, and he was never going to go back (and as far as I am aware he never did go back).
I can understand a track only driver having that reaction but drivers who are used to rallying such as Jim Richards did not have too many issues with the event at all and he was a driver who switched between track and the Targa with no problems.
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Old 10 May 2022, 05:07 (Ref:4109496)   #11
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True Casper, I wasn't doing more that relate an anecdote about the perception of risk, and the fact that the realisation of risks seems to have accelerated in recent times makes that anecdote noteworthy.

It may be that drivers of the calibre of Richards can manage that risk better than others.

The latest incident suggests that the last review did not go far enough - it certainly needs revisiting in the light of the circumstances of the latest fatality.
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Old 10 May 2022, 05:32 (Ref:4109497)   #12
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I can understand a track only driver having that reaction but drivers who are used to rallying such as Jim Richards did not have too many issues with the event at all and he was a driver who switched between track and the Targa with no problems.
I remember listening to Jim at a talk years ago where he recounted a moment on a Targa Tassie stage where he realised he was going well over 200, and all of a sudden the trees seemed very close to the road. He backed off, down to 170ish and continued on for a little bit before realising that a crash at that speed would still be fatal, and that he was losing time by going slowly. So he got back on it and tried not to think of the consequences.
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Old 14 May 2022, 06:21 (Ref:4109869)   #13
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All Targa tarmac rallies suspended

A decision has been reached by Motorsport Australia’s board to suspend all Targa tarmac rallies, effective immediately.


More to come.
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Old 14 May 2022, 11:49 (Ref:4109881)   #14
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All Targa tarmac rallies suspended

A decision has been reached by Motorsport Australia’s board to suspend all Targa tarmac rallies, effective immediately.


More to come.
Wow. Not surprised in some ways - apart from the heartache of competitors being hurt or killed, the undoubtedly higher insurance premiums driven by tarmac rally cover are going to flow through to everyone in the sport.

At some time in that situation, it makes sense to completely stop and do a full review and consideration of how they should be run, if they are run at all.
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Old 15 May 2022, 11:52 (Ref:4110053)   #15
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It may be that drivers of the calibre of Richards can manage that risk better than others.
Yes but even the undeniably skilled driver that was Brock was taken

Sometimes driving abillity is not enough when the cars and the roads arent designed for super high speeds.
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