|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
8 Dec 2018, 20:00 (Ref:3868831) | #826 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 943
|
He's wrong. The simulator I use for example has laser scanned tracks and cars. All the bumps on the real track are 100% replicated in the sim. A few seconds of googling will show you many pro drivers using that simulation to get ready for races. It will never be 100% the same of course but 'not comparable' is way off the mark.
|
|
|
8 Dec 2018, 20:03 (Ref:3868832) | #827 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 943
|
Almost daily, when I can. Anyone can, providing time and a decent wheel. In fact, a few days ago I was overtaken by Lando Norris while racing a Formula Renault 3.5. He disappeared into the distance very very quickly.
Anway, straying from the point. Your claim about the driver 'not making a difference' simply doesn't hold up in any way. |
|
|
8 Dec 2018, 20:11 (Ref:3868833) | #828 | |||
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 39,527
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
96 days... |
8 Dec 2018, 20:12 (Ref:3868834) | #829 | |||
Race Official
20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,144
|
Quote:
How much is the simulator you use and what make? |
|||
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
8 Dec 2018, 20:21 (Ref:3868836) | #830 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 943
|
||
|
8 Dec 2018, 20:22 (Ref:3868837) | #831 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 943
|
||
|
8 Dec 2018, 20:29 (Ref:3868838) | #832 | ||||||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,719
|
the thread has moved on but still wanted to respond to a couple of things from a few pages back.
Quote:
so for sure i see your overall point that, like at Bristol, the speed and length of track has approached a point where there isnt enough time for human reaction time to factor into the equation. i guess my response is that F1 still has a long way to go before the natural time limits of well time create a situation where the need to make split second decisions disappears. the logic of your point imo is sound , im not so sure its a problem which needs immediate remedy. although, as the moment of being 'too fast' does approach, would this period not benefit drivers who can make these split second choices faster, better, react more quickly? to use an antiquated phrase, won't this separate the men from the boys? granted this would all be much more of a visceral experience to watch if there was less telemetry and technological aides being used to remove the need for a quick witted driver so to speak. Quote:
Quote:
but that said, and as you have said before EffectiveSprinkles is that most of the changes being proposed here have very little chance of ever being implemented, certainly the notion of a budget cap is high on the list of will never happen. and i will, no doubt, be better served by coming to terms with that. so i go back to sand traps and the inevitable SC (as opposed to a VSC) that will come out as the beached car is rescued. if the teams arent going to change their ways and if the running order is typically lined up in order of the team that spends the most to the team that spends the least then perhaps there is some virtue in seeing the field get bunched up a few times a race and thereby eliminating this relative lap time advantage the top teams have? arguably, more sand traps is a simple and reasonably easily implemented solution to this particular problem...all be it, which i suppose is an 'artificial' type solution Quote:
gonna have to think on that one for a bit. |
||||||
__________________
Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place |
8 Dec 2018, 20:34 (Ref:3868839) | #833 | ||
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 39,527
|
|||
__________________
96 days... |
8 Dec 2018, 20:43 (Ref:3868841) | #834 | ||
Race Official
20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,144
|
|||
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
8 Dec 2018, 21:04 (Ref:3868845) | #835 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 943
|
Quote:
PS: he says the bumps aren't there. They are because the tracks are laserscanned. He has no idea what he's talking about. |
||
|
8 Dec 2018, 21:05 (Ref:3868846) | #836 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 943
|
||
|
8 Dec 2018, 21:37 (Ref:3868852) | #837 | ||
14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 42,425
|
It’s time to move on now. All has been said that can be.
You’ve missed the other mods saying this. Perhaps they were too subtle. This post isn’t. Move on. |
||
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously. |
8 Dec 2018, 21:41 (Ref:3868853) | #838 | |||
Race Official
20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,144
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
8 Dec 2018, 22:54 (Ref:3868861) | #839 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
|
Quote:
Schumacher - made him motion sick and felt it was a waste of time. Raikkonen - told Sauber, who don't have a simulator not to bother, he had one at home, PlayStation. Vettel reckoned that was why Kimi was going to Sauber, because he hated the simulator so much. Hamilton - clearly finds the simulator a waste of his time. At the end of the day the simulator is probably a tool for the engineers and not the drivers at the ultimate edge of performance, sure it teaches you where the track goes and what to look out for, but it will miss the subtleties. This was a good cool down room discussion about the effect of the wind on the cars at Abu Dahbi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUSfWqvw1x4 |
||
|
8 Dec 2018, 23:51 (Ref:3868873) | #840 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,803
|
It’s been an interesting discussion over the past page or so!
Quote:
If the simulator does a good job of modeling the dynamics of the car, then it will be a big help to engineers as they can test virtual configurations and modifications and get feedback from the simulator drivers. Teams wouldn’t do it if they didn’t think it didn’t help. With all of that being said, I think the article posted earlier... as written... doesn’t pay enough respect to good simulators (those that are a step above gaming consoles). If the author accurately quote Lewis, then I think Lewis painted with a wide brush and was wrong to do so. Or maybe Lewis should consider that “he” is not the primary consumer/target of that specific technology within the team. Richard |
||
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one." |
9 Dec 2018, 05:12 (Ref:3868893) | #841 | ||
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 37,234
|
Unless the team was running a new driver, the old system of testing was all about engineering. So in that context Richard's post makes sense.
I'd still suggest that the best simulators can't replicate g forces etc. So the psychological part of racing "flat through Eau Rouge" if you will, won't be replicated. |
||
|
9 Dec 2018, 05:26 (Ref:3868896) | #842 | |||
Race Official
20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,144
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
9 Dec 2018, 07:36 (Ref:3868902) | #843 | |
Veteran
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,211
|
That is exactly what happens when the lap times get too short, the time compression leaves the driver with less and less options. Then of course on top of steering the car he is getting orders from the pit to change a hundred things and we as humans only have so much capacity to manage all this stuff. My experience is I can tell a good driver because he can multi skill in the car and then give a detailed report of what is happening, it takes a lot more to overwhelm him than an average good driver. This sort of stuff unfortunately gets very little or no discussion.
|
|
|
9 Dec 2018, 08:14 (Ref:3868907) | #844 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,325
|
Imagine if there was no telemetry during the race. That would give drivers more mechanical knowledge
|
|
__________________
He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
9 Dec 2018, 08:44 (Ref:3868909) | #845 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,211
|
Quote:
|
||
|
9 Dec 2018, 10:28 (Ref:3868911) | #846 | ||
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 37,234
|
[Mod] Yes, click on the troublesome poster's name and then when you get to its profile, click on lists. You have an option to add to ignore list. Hope this helps. [/mod]
|
||
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead. |
9 Dec 2018, 10:31 (Ref:3868915) | #847 | ||
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 37,234
|
Soo, whilst I'm not anti-technology and I do agree that sims are for the engineers, the same as physical testing was back in the day. The costs of running the sims and all that CFD work, must be astronomical. Think what could be spent if they didn't have those things but had a test team doing the physical work and running in public so the average punter could see them at work. Surely that would be an improvement for F1 and a win for all concerned?
|
||
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead. |
9 Dec 2018, 12:28 (Ref:3868934) | #848 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 10,912
|
Quote:
Simulators aren't cheap, but it's cheaper than sending teams of people around the world to test. |
||
|
9 Dec 2018, 12:35 (Ref:3868935) | #849 | ||
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 37,234
|
Yes I understand that point too, but coupled with the CFD and other technology, the entire exercise becomes searingly expensive. The original idea of banning testing was because it was deemed too expensive. So they developed SIMs to do the job. The teams now employ a large number of technicians to operate and interpret the result from the SIMs. Kind of self defeating really.
Yes the results are far more accurate than achieved by testing but if we are talking about improving F1 overall, then reverting to testing in season carries three (for me) benefits; 1, there's more opportunity for the fans to see the cars; 2, the level of sophistication of the cars would naturally reduce since physical testing is less accurate than a SI; and, 3, it would be less costly (now). |
||
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead. |
9 Dec 2018, 13:12 (Ref:3868938) | #850 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 10,912
|
I 100% agree it would improve the sport (especially if testing was open to the public, for the reasons you mention), but I'm not sure the costs would be decreased in doing so. I don't see how the sophistication of the cars would reduce, as this requires engineers to unlearn things. They could maybe advance at a reduced rate, but they certainly would not become less advanced. Knowledge is cumulative.
|
|
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
DP's Fix | gttouring | Sportscar & GT Racing | 31 | 31 Mar 2003 13:52 |
Is this a fix? | Peter S | Formula One | 28 | 25 Mar 2003 14:17 |
Williams trying to "fix car" 2 weeks before Melbourne? | Sodemo | Formula One | 8 | 28 Feb 2003 10:12 |
If you want to fix it | mtpanorama | Road Car Forum | 3 | 17 May 2001 02:09 |
How to fix F1 | Crash Test | Formula One | 2 | 24 Jun 2000 23:23 |