Over 12 yrs Old - then pay Up!

Mark Mitchell · 18 Mar 2005, 10:38 (Ref:1255074)

MotorSport Vision have announced that their child ticket pricing policy is to change.

"MSV has advised us that they have altered their policy regarding charging for children at MSV race meetings. Children are now classed as 12 and under as opposed to 16 and under. Therefore any team member aged 12 years and over must be in possession of a valid ticket for the meeting."

diz · 18 Mar 2005, 11:14 (Ref:1255099)

Is a 13, 14, or 15 year old now allowed into the pit lane? Don't shout "insurance implications" at me"
If they are classed as full paying adults on one hand, surely they can't be classed as a child on the other.

JJ Jet Plane · 18 Mar 2005, 11:23 (Ref:1255106)

Diz - only when they're driving a T-Car, Formula BMW, Ginetta etc! Total hypocrisy isn't it?

**Stephen Green** · 18 Mar 2005, 11:39 (Ref:1255112)

I think you are confusing rules for race entries with rules for spectators.

Personally I don't think lowering the age limit to 12 for spectators is particularly problematical and if teams bring 12-16 year olds to race meetings I wouldn't have thought they would want their offspring in the pit lane anyway due to its inherent danger?

Elio · 18 Mar 2005, 11:42 (Ref:1255114)

Mark, you`re a couple of weeks late - it`s only been done in the "How do we increase the gate at race meetings?" thread!!!....

JJ Jet Plane · 18 Mar 2005, 11:44 (Ref:1255115)

True, but say for example that there's a 45-year-old club racer with a 14-year-old son who is a good mechanic and timekeeper. The 14-year-old would be fully aware of the dangers of the pit lane and act as sensibly as anyone over 16.

Chris Gray · 18 Mar 2005, 11:46 (Ref:1255117)

It seems a bit unfair to charge a 12 year old £12 pounds when as a 20 year old student I can get in for half Price! Surely they must only charge a concessionary rate, after all kids are in education as well.

But the above comments are right, youngsters are considered adults when it is advantagous to classify them as such, and vice versa.

**Stephen Green** · 18 Mar 2005, 11:48 (Ref:1255118)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ Jet Plane

True, but say for example that there's a 45-year-old club racer with a 14-year-old son who is a good mechanic and timekeeper. The 14-year-old would be fully aware of the dangers of the pit lane and act as sensibly as anyone over 16.

Surely then in this case the youngster would get in on one of the teams free tickets?

diz · 18 Mar 2005, 11:53 (Ref:1255120)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

I think you are confusing rules for race entries with rules for spectators.

Personally I don't think lowering the age limit to 12 for spectators is particularly problematical and if teams bring 12-16 year olds to race meetings I wouldn't have thought they would want their offspring in the pit lane anyway due to its inherent danger?

Not confusing it at all Stephen. A 13-15 year old is a child, whether accompanying a team, or a spectating parent.
At OP the pit garages appear to be classed as pit lane [I don't know how you class it down at Brands]. They don't allow kiddie winkies in the garage with their mum and dad because of the "inherent danger", even though they would be under some semblance of parental control. They are however happy to allow them to zoom round the paddock on bikes, skate boards, mini motor bikes etc. and being a right pain in the proverbial.
Perhaps you could bring the opinions expressed on the various 'ticket type threads' to the attention of your new best Doctor chum. It would be very interesting to get the reasoning behind the whole ticket reduction and age restrictions his management team are imposing on their clients. All us TT posters can't be wrong.

Mark Mitchell · 18 Mar 2005, 11:54 (Ref:1255122)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elio

Mark, you`re a couple of weeks late - it`s only been done in the "How do we increase the gate at race meetings?" thread!!!....

Thanks Elio.......I just received it from the latest BRSCC newsletter today!!!!

diz · 18 Mar 2005, 11:57 (Ref:1255123)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

Surely then in this case the youngster would get in on one of the teams free tickets?

One of the FOUR FREE TICKETS. Mum, Dad [the driver] and two sprogs. Well that's them used up. A mechanic or two will need to pay to get in. As I say above, please ask JP what he is playing at.

**Tim Falce** · 18 Mar 2005, 12:20 (Ref:1255125)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ Jet Plane

True, but say for example that there's a 45-year-old club racer with a 14-year-old son who is a good mechanic and timekeeper. The 14-year-old would be fully aware of the dangers of the pit lane and act as sensibly as anyone over 16.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

Surely then in this case the youngster would get in on one of the teams free tickets?

The argument was that as an adult is now over 12 years old according to MSV, would they be allowed in the pit lane regardless of who pays

**Asp** · 18 Mar 2005, 12:44 (Ref:1255148)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Gray

It seems a bit unfair to charge a 12 year old £12 pounds when as a 20 year old student I can get in for half Price! Surely they must only charge a concessionary rate, after all kids are in education as well.

Is that actually the case? Granted, it's been quite a long time since I paid to get into a circuit (in fact I don't think I have, I was a 'child' before I started marshalling...), but I thought the only concession was for being a child - normally free, occasionally a couple of quid instead of £20...

**Woolley** · 18 Mar 2005, 13:44 (Ref:1255196)

I do think it's short sighted as these are our potential future paying spectators, drivers or marshals. May I suggest all those who feel strongly address Jonathon Palmer and MSV directly with good reasons, or write to Autosport/MS News.

goforit500 · 18 Mar 2005, 14:38 (Ref:1255226)

Given the gate at most clubbies that should add about 2s 6d to JPs coffers and not a lot for his clubbie supporting stance :-)

**Adam43** · 18 Mar 2005, 14:56 (Ref:1255236)

I think it is a shame that they have decided to charge the younger people. A lot of families going will think twice - at least about the number of events they go to.

As for the comparison with children in the pits areas, I think that is false - it is a different situation. Paying to get in to a circuit to watch is different to being in an area where you need a degree of responsibility. JJ Jet Plane, yes there are 14 year olds who take care in those situations, some more than 24, 34, 44, etc.. year olds. A lot don't though. So we have to have to have a cut off - it is sensible. The better alternative to this would be a form of entrance exam/requirements. Perhaps they could put ticket prices or entrance fees up to pay for that?

**Asp** · 18 Mar 2005, 15:30 (Ref:1255250)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

As for the comparison with children in the pits areas, I think that is false - it is a different situation. Paying to get in to a circuit to watch is different to being in an area where you need a degree of responsibility. JJ Jet Plane, yes there are 14 year olds who take care in those situations, some more than 24, 34, 44, etc.. year olds. A lot don't though. So we have to have to have a cut off - it is sensible. The better alternative to this would be a form of entrance exam/requirements. Perhaps they could put ticket prices or entrance fees up to pay for that?

I think we're dwelling on this point too much - I'm sure that under 16s will still not be allowed in Pit Lane. And this is rightly so, there has to be a cut off, 16 is a sensible age to make it.

The question we really should be asking is why has this been done? Obviously MSV have their reasons - but judging by feeling so far they appear to have shot themselves in their foot.

Another note is that I believe there still is (officially) a limit on the age people are allowed to go the circuit on their own (again, rightly so). This is that you have to be over 16 - which, I believe, is probably one reason why the age was under 16 as they'd have to enter with a full paying adult anyway! Now the ticket age limit has been lowered, is the right to enter age limit also being lowered? Or is it just ensuring that if a 14 year old kid wants to go and watch racing it now costs double what it once did?

chezza · 18 Mar 2005, 17:06 (Ref:1255329)

Please note that it is not only the child age that has been changed...the concessions for OAP's and the disabled is to be removed. I think that it is a disgrace...a dad and his 13 and 15 year old changed their mind at the brands gate when asked to cough up the money. This is going to lose spectators and is no way going to encourage families.

brands · 18 Mar 2005, 17:18 (Ref:1255335)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezza

Please note that it is not only the child age that has been changed...the concessions for OAP's and the disabled is to be removed. I think that it is a disgrace...a dad and his 13 and 15 year old changed their mind at the brands gate when asked to cough up the money. This is going to lose spectators and is no way going to encourage families.

I've already had a rant over this subject on the other thread and did take my 14 year old son to Brands last Saturday..............apart from the CSMA and the Superprix that will be the last time this season ( we normally do 8-10 Brands meetings a year).
It is going to be interesting at the first major bike and car events, BTCC for one, when parents suddenly realise that they need to find an extra £25 for one or more of their 13-15 years.

I didn't realise the OAP and disabled concessions have been binned as well but I'm not surprised........

brands · 18 Mar 2005, 17:22 (Ref:1255338)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

I think you are confusing rules for race entries with rules for spectators.

Personally I don't think lowering the age limit to 12 for spectators is particularly problematical and if teams bring 12-16 year olds to race meetings I wouldn't have thought they would want their offspring in the pit lane anyway due to its inherent danger?

Since 13-15 year olds are now classed as adults( thankfully only at Palmer's circuits) surely they are entitled to go anywhere an adult can.............I wonder what would happen if someone dropped off a coach full of 13 year olds, would Palmer allow them in unsupervised ?

MikeHoyer · 19 Mar 2005, 00:47 (Ref:1255643)

I suppose Palmer has got big plans for his circuits, and the money needs to come from somewhere.

I certainly agree about young people in the pitlane, it's common sense, whether they have paid or not is nothing to do with it.

I'm not that bothered, it doesn't really affect me, and I did have a free weekend at Oulton last year (they thought my student card was a season ticket...

)

**Snapper Baz** · 19 Mar 2005, 18:13 (Ref:1256153)

Its a disgrace charging for kids over 12, now a person who cant leave the younger ones at home (due to added costs) has to take them or not go-I know what I would do! If you see no harm in it Steve will you now allow 12 year old marshalls & photographers behind the barriers as they are classed as adults afterall?

Piglet · 19 Mar 2005, 20:49 (Ref:1256266)

I don't see the relevance between an entry and pricing policy laid down by a limited company and circuit owner on the regulations governing UK motorsport laid down by the governing body (MSA)? Isn't it a bit like saying a bus company charges adult fares at 14 so a person over 14 who has to pay an adult fare to get to a polling station should be able to vote when they get there?

I don't think it's a good pricing policy, but if you're going to argue that, then argue it on its merits.

As to the point about garages being pit lane or not, the MSA regs state that garages are part of the pit lane and therefore under 16's are not allowed (there is now some wording relating to 15 year old drivers I think but I don't have a blue book to hand) you will often find that pit marshals will not enforce this if a child/children are in a garage and appear to be being well supervised, if you try to argue the toss about it you'll probably find your child excluded from both in line with the regulations. With regard to the point re paddock bikes etc., AFAIK final instructions for all circuits and clubs state that children shouldn't ride these in the paddock etc., Whether parents chose to adhere to the rules is a different story.

Chris Gray · 19 Mar 2005, 23:10 (Ref:1256366)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asp

Is that actually the case? Granted, it's been quite a long time since I paid to get into a circuit (in fact I don't think I have, I was a 'child' before I started marshalling...), but I thought the only concession was for being a child - normally free, occasionally a couple of quid instead of £20...

True, at least at the circuits I've been to. I didn't start paying at all til I was 18, since I look(ed) reasonably young. Obviously I couldn't do that when driving - try turning up in your car and arguing you're a child!

Still, free kids was always the case at club meetings, and I think at BTCC as well (pre-2000 anyway).

Chris Gray · 19 Mar 2005, 23:13 (Ref:1256367)

Oh, and if you look on the MSV website they do still have a concessions rate I do believe. Whether that now applies only to unborn babies and dead people I can't comment...