[Official] Austrian Grand Prix 2020: Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 1 of who knows how many

[Knowlesy]

Red Bull seems a bit skittish. Max's pace doesn't seem too bad relative to Hamilton lap on lap but he is working a bit harder to achieve it I would say.

[Knowlesy]

Mercedes 1-2 backed up by a Tracing Point.

Leclerc and Albon seemed a bit off all day, really.

[steve_r]

Aaaand, it is as we were.

Half a second gap around such a small lap is very significant gap, maybe equivalent to a second or more on many of the longer tracks. Perhaps it will close up tomorrow.

Some people are calling the Racing Point the "Pink Mercedes" and others are calling the works car as the "Black Mercedes".

[Adam43]

Great to see the cars. People out there, sorting their cars out.

The Mercs looking good at a track they struggled (relatively!) on recently.

[Knowlesy]

Red Bull have, as expected, lodged their protest of the DAS system.

Could be awkward scenes for management there, given their star asset Adrian Newey is growing disillusioned with the stifling of innovation in F1. Or perhaps not.

[Adam43]

I thought that. I guess Red Bull only like Newey innovation.

[S griffin]

They said they would do it, so there we are. Hope a sensible solution is reached. Anyway Merc have already agreed to drop it for 2021

[Richard C]

I think RB really just want clarity on it's legality for 2020. While it is explicitly outlawed for 2021, there is no opinion by the stewards one way or another as to 2020. I expect if it is ruled OK, RB will show up with a version very soon.

Richard

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I thought that. I guess Red Bull only like Newey innovation.

It's not real inovation is it? since a far more complicated sytem that moved suspension parts was already banned at the end of 1993(the active suspension wich was on a Newey designed Williams)

[Adam43]

It's more disruptive for Mercedes than it is Red Bull.

And I presume, the result is known after the race?

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

It's not real inovation is it? since a far more complicated sytem that moved suspension parts was already banned at the end of 1993(the active suspension wich was on a Newey designed Williams)

It's a different solution.

This is controlled by the driver and alters steering geometry.

Active suspension controls ride height and suspension of each corner of the car automatically rather than through driver input (although IIRC they could turn it on or off).

So even if you think it is the same, which it isn't, it is a new way to do something. Would you say ground effect was not innovative because it did the same thing as wings in giving you downforce? As an example and rhetorical question.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...hdZGT0ejB.html
Active suspension is mentioned in this article about DAS. In the "Is it normal for one team to find something so revolutionary?" rather than it is the same.

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by Adam43

It's a different solution.

This is controlled by the driver and alters steering geometry.

Active suspension controls ride height and suspension of each corner of the car automatically rather than through driver input (although IIRC they could turn it on or off).

So even if you think it is the same, which it isn't, it is a new way to do something. Would you say ground effect was not innovative because it did the same thing as wings in giving you downforce? As an example and rhetorical question.

It still moves part of the suspension other than the steering rack, and I've seen the FIA bann things for "safety" throughout the years that were a lot less dangerous than a moving steering collumn

[Adam43]

The only thing I know is that if it designed by Red Bull it would be as safe as houses.

Why is it unsafe? Just sounds like it is? Seemed OK in testing.

It's a debateable point, I suppose, as they are debating it, but it's not like the FIA didn't know anything about it. I think Merc would rightly feel miffed if they suffered this year because of it.

[S griffin]

If it like active suspension, Merc could dominate the season Williams 1992 style

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

It still moves part of the suspension other than the steering rack, and I've seen the FIA bann things for "safety" throughout the years that were a lot less dangerous than a moving steering collumn

Three things...

1) People can quibble over the legality. But frankly the fact is, this adjust steering angles. It is NOT anything remotely anything close to active suspension and is highly likely it does anything outside of what it is advertised to do.

2). Yes, it could be banned via common "catch all" rules that are relatively arbitrary. Such as "Safety" or "Movable Aero". Frankly I see this more likely to be deemed "Movable Aero" than anything else. I personally think it is otherwise legal. What gets up everyone's noses is that it is very creative in how it is legal and totally not something anyone expected when the rules were put together.

With all of that being said, I would be fine if it was banned for 2020 given it is already excluded in 2021. I am also dubious of it's effectiveness. I think it brings "an" advantage, but is not a game changing solution. This is not going to win anyone a championship.

Richard

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Adam43

It's more disruptive for Mercedes than it is Red Bull.

I feel this. RB taking the fight to merc on as many fronts as they can.

Is it telling that it is not Ferrari attempting to disrupt Merc?

Do challange like this and who makes the challange reflect the current order?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

I feel this. RB taking the fight to merc on as many fronts as they can.

Is it telling that it is not Ferrari attempting to disrupt Merc?

Do challange like this and who makes the challange reflect the current order?

Can I be cynical and say Ferrari may have waited to protest AFTER qualifying or the race with an eye towards invalidating race results while RBR has decided to do it early enough that Mercedes can remove/disable DAS before the race? It was also probably well understood that RBR planned a protest. They have been telegraphing that for a long time. Also, if RBR hadn't protested, maybe Ferrari might have been in line to do so itself. Lastly, I expect Mercedes is ready for either scenario (allowed or disallowed). Its all a big dance right now.

Richard

[Richard C]

Another thing to consider on the timing. What if RBR has something like DAS ready to go. Either now or next weekend. Better to question the legality before it negatively impacts their own point haul.

Richard

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

...Its all a big dance right now.

Fair points...Games within games right!

Oh how i have missed this dance.My turn to be the cynic and say the controversy adds to the weekend fun.

[Adam43]

Or Ferrari have one nearly ready to go, whereas Red Bull haven’t bothered so they need to protest.

This is all reading too much into this.

Toto says it is part of F1 to have these clarifications. At the moment that is all it is. One team has it, another doesn’t and is challenging.

[NaBUru38]

Austrian Grand Prix - top 10 highlights


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ3-L5n46LI

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Or Ferrari have one nearly ready to go, whereas Red Bull haven’t bothered so they need to protest.

This is all reading too much into this.

Toto says it is part of F1 to have these clarifications. At the moment that is all it is. One team has it, another doesn’t and is challenging.

I think it is likely more the other way round..... Horner said something in an interview that suggested they are developing something already. My thought is they are just confirming whether it is legal before throwing more money at it to further develop their interpretation of it.
I have heard but not seen a link yet that the system Merc are using has again been cleared ie protest has been dismissed. It is still illegal for next year.

Edit: found a link saying it is cleared : https://www.sportskeeda.com/motorspo...d-bull-protest

F1.com tweet: https://twitter.com/F1/status/127919...853059/photo/1

[E.B]

Originally Posted by E.B

I have heard but not seen a link yet that the system Merc are using has again been cleared ie protest has been dismissed. It is still illegal for next year.

Edit: found a link saying it is cleared : https://www.sportskeeda.com/motorspo...d-bull-protest

F1.com tweet: https://twitter.com/F1/status/127919...853059/photo/1

F1.com now have a full article rather that a picture tweet with the result only

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...4t6v6m1c0.html

.....it was determined that DAS is part of the Mercedes W11’s steering system, “albeit not a conventional one”.

As a result, the stewards decided that DAS could not be in breach of any suspension‐related regulations.

“As a general conclusion, it is very simple to conclude DAS would be illegal IF it were not part of the steering system,” read the stewards’ document. “So the main challenge and debate has to be on whether it can be considered to be part of the steering system. The stewards decide that DAS is a part of the steering system.

"Therefore the Stewards consider DAS to be a legitimate part of the steering system and hence to satisfy the relevant regulations regarding suspension or aerodynamic influence."....

Copy of the full FIA/Stewards report here: https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi...20Car%2077.pdf

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Or Ferrari have one nearly ready to go, whereas Red Bull haven’t bothered so they need to protest.

This is all reading too much into this.

Toto says it is part of F1 to have these clarifications. At the moment that is all it is. One team has it, another doesn’t and is challenging.

Or Red Bull have one and want a clear decision that it's legal before they use it themselves

[Born Racer]

Pérez could win races this year and he looks well-placed for a podium here.

The Racing Point was about 0.4s away from the Mercedes on long runs, slightly closer than Red Bull.