FIA tin-tops

[David McKinney]

Welcome to the forum, Carol
I hope you don't regret it once everyone knows you're here!

[Al Weyman]

And what about the 6.2 litre Chevys with the motor sport Bowtie blocks a 1/4 inch bigger than standard and special heads etc which were just not about in the 60's and certainly never 'Homologated' for the 1st Gen Camaro did you. I think some of the Historic stuff has got way over the top which is why I prepared my Camaro to the sensible CTCRC rules and where I will continue to play. It is this sort of thing that puts me off as it becomes pure cheque book racing and whereas I may well be fortunate enough (or not) to afford it, do I really want to at the end of the day when all that will happen is everyone will just go a couple of seconds a lap faster spend a lot more money and the racing will not be any better.

[zefarelly]

Originally Posted by HMRN

U2TC will be for cars as they ran in the 1963-65 European Touring Car Championship. The idea is to cater for owners who don't want to heavily modify their cars, but who still want to be competitive. They will look like period cars too. All cars will run on M-section Dunlops or earlier tread pattern. We will post regs on the Historic Motor Racing News web site soon.

from the horses mouth . . . sounds perfect to me, I'm looking forward to it

and a warm welcome to the topsy turvy world of tentenths Carol

[simon drabble]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

And what about the 6.2 litre Chevys with the motor sport Bowtie blocks a 1/4 inch bigger than standard and special heads etc which were just not about in the 60's and certainly never 'Homologated' for the 1st Gen Camaro did you. I think some of the Historic stuff has got way over the top which is why I prepared my Camaro to the sensible CTCRC rules and where I will continue to play. It is this sort of thing that puts me off as it becomes pure cheque book racing and whereas I may well be fortunate enough (or not) to afford it, do I really want to at the end of the day when all that will happen is everyone will just go a couple of seconds a lap faster spend a lot more money and the racing will not be any better.

not sure what this has to do with sub 2 litre pre 66 tin tops!!

[Al Weyman]

Opps sorry missed that, what are sub 2 litre, do they make such a thing? :-)

[zefarelly]

theyre called starting motors Al

[john ruston]

With B8 chevrons @ 125KGBP and B19's @225 its only a matter of time when 23's etc will rise towards 100K.This assumes that they stop knocking out replicas Got a cheap Crossle with a 2 litre engine ,of course they built them in 65 [but not in Northern Ireland!],Can have the same single seater for a third of the money

[simon drabble]

like your thinking John - not that we have a vested interest ;-)
mind you with GTA's already 60k (and a lot more if genuine Corsa history) and Carol's series possibly pushing them up further GTAm's look good for a lot further as well......

[zefarelly]

as long as the values keep rising the market for fakes and replicas will thrive, especially when you can build a new replica for half the price.

LC's are silly money and none or hardly any of them are original

[James Murray]

Don't you think that prices will plummet at some point due to economic decline as houses, antiques always do, or are the majority of people who purchase expensive racing cars so wealthy they're not affected by recession's and as Historic racing is so popular now, there are enough of these people floating about to keep prices high?

Another point there are loads of cars advertised with silly asking prices but do they go for that amount? My guess is the majority don't as you see some cars for sale for yonks. Look at the Brabham BT8 that has been for sale all this year. Unless theres something seriously wrong with it, one would think it would be desirable and competitive car for all the sports race car stuff you can do with it, so the only logical explanation is that the owner wants an unrealistic price.

Finally never understood why single seaters are cheaper than sports cars. Look at the 2litre Group 6 stuff, they're essentially 2 seater F2 cars with the same running gear yet often more double the price! I guess some of it may come down to what you can do with them, but that can't be the only answer.

[simon drabble]

I brokered a sale of a BT8 earlier this year at £120k requiring a rebuild and a race ready B8 at £125k. Cars are fetching these prices as historics are extremely popular. Bear in mind that if equities, bonds and real estate are languishing you have to put your money somewhere. You can get 4% on depo or invest it into something that is fun. It wont be like the early 90's but it will continue. 23b's were 100k back then in real money terms that would mean they would have to go to 250k now, unlikely but it shows in relative terms that they are still quite cheap. The difference between now and then is that the tin tops werent going up then as there was not the prestigeous racing for them then that there is now.
Sportsracers go for more for two reasons, firstly there are endurance races and that is more interesting for the "amateur" racer as its more tactical than out and out talent and secondly rightly or wrongly people consider them safer as they are not open wheel.

[simon drabble]

Sorry just to add the BT8 which has been for sale for some time does probably need some prepping so it does seem pricey. The owner is not that motivated having made a bob or two in shirts ;-)

[zefarelly]

I've never seen a poor property owner, I'd say its the best investment you'll ever make!

cars are different as they do tend to go in and out of fashion, certain events seem to be used as a booster for values, but I think the reality is that cars only sell for what theyre worth, unless you can convince a rich idiot to pay more ( they are out there!)

as an example, an on the button FiA LC could be bought and prepared for £30k so why you'd spend 50k on one I don't know.

[simon drabble]

and if you had been quick you could have bought Rob Hartleys winning car last year for £26k.... he wont sell it now for less than 40k!

[Al Weyman]

40k for CocoTina, the world has gone made!

[john ruston]

BT8 in that well known London Mews is 150K1

[zefarelly]

Al . I agree, but thats mid market, a certain LC raced at Goodwood and doesnt even have FiA papers is reported to have cost closing in on double that. Its quite common to see them round the 50k mark now.

[Al Weyman]

Wow that is a lot of money for a 4 cylinder saloon car with an alloy bonnet!

[zefarelly]

its only the skin thats ally, and that was an option by 1964!

all the homologated aluminium panels and castings are worth around 30kg in total, useful, especially given its a fairly light car anyway ( compared to most at the time) my cars homologated weight is 728kg which is good because a 1500cc all iron 4 pot isn't exactly a tyre shredder!

[Al Weyman]

I'd say that weighs about half the weight of my old tub good job I have about 3 times the grunt!

[zefarelly]

and in historics on Dunlops we get 1/3 the grip !

thats what makes it fun though

[Al Weyman]

No we are on par there Zef because I am on those skinny Dunlop Formula R's 225 x 55 x 15, I swear the old Falken road tyres were better alrhough I used a wider lower profile tyre on a 16" rim, at least they lasted the race! I did contemplate changing them for the Silverstone race but I think I will leave them and try to get more practice setting them up and using them.

[simon drabble]

Just thinking ahead to next year - tin tops are going to have a lot of great racing. Presumably at the key meetings (Donington May meeting, Pau, Dijon, silversone Classic and Spa) there are going to be upwrds of 3 x 1 hour races for FIA Appendix K cars (Top Hat, Carol Spagg's U2L Appdx K series and the FIA Championship its self. A busy time ahead.....

[zefarelly]

but can the wallet cope ? I may have to look at selling half my drive if I want to do too much racing. although you'll need a band of Gypsies to get me out of the car at Spa !!!

so you fancy your chances in your new toy then Simon ?

[simon drabble]

might do! I will let you know after I have tried it out!!