BTCC+DTM+Y2K+1=??

[Danielsun]

Confused yet? good, 'cos so am I!

The point I'm making comes from the e-mailed pages of Autosport. Freshly delivered to me:

Vauxhall is planning a DTM-style multi-team entry of six cars in next year's new-look British Touring Car Championship.

"I can see six Astras on the grid," said Vauxhall's motorsport boss Mike Nicholson. "I'm really optimistic for next year."

Triple-Eight, the current works operation has committed to running three Astra based racers in next year's series, but the team is now putting plans into action for a two-car 'junior squad' to be run by a satellite team. In addition, Triple-Eight also hopes to sell at least one Astra to a privateer runner.

Vauxhall is so far the only manufacturer to commit to the new-look BTCC, which features 2-litre, 270bhp engines and strict regulations on the manufacturing and preparation of the cars. The rules are aimed to level the playing field between works teams and private entrants, but the works outfit - which will build all the cars - claims not to fear the possible embarrassment of being beaten by a non-works competitor:

"If we are beaten by a team using the equipment better, we'll have to take a hard look at ourselves," said Triple-Eight manager Ian Harrison. "We'll get a bit of competition, but we don't shy away from that."

Triple-Eight's development parts will be offered to Vauxhall's other teams after one race being used solely by the factory team.

New low cost BTCC rules have cut the advantage of running a 'works' team in the way they currently exist in the championship, by insisting that one tuner prepares all cars entered by a manufacturer, whether they be the factory team, privateer or satellite operation, on an equal basis.

The prospect of at six or more Vauxhalls in the BTCC next year will be a definite boost to the series, which is currently struggling to get manufacturers to commit for 2001.

Further to that:

Two manufacturers the BTCC had been hoping to snare for the new-look 2001 season have revealed they have no plans to build cars to the new low-cost formula recently unveiled by British Motorsport Promotors. BMP, who took over the running of the series from TOCA earlier this year, has pledged to have six manufacturers on board by the time the revised series kicks off next year. However, only Vauxhall has so far offered its commitment to the championship.

Audi and Toyota have ruled out returning to the series, in which both have had considerable success in the past. Audi's UK importer has played down talk of its involvement, saying there was never any dialogue with Audi itself. A further blow has been dealt by Toyota, who admitted to having looked at an entry but decided against joining the series for now.

The message, I guess, is Take the good with the bad...

[Crash Test]

What exactly are these cars? paper cut outs? plastic models? Shoot, if they can build 6 decent, proper race cars...good on em..
[Edited by Crash Test on 27th July 2000]

[kmchow]

Sighhh...it would have been cool to see the VW Bora and Toyota Altezza line up on the starting grid.

Any word on Honda, Nissan, Ford and Volvo? I thought Peugeot was going to field a works or semi-works team?

Though my preference is for sedans, I have to admit the Astras are pretty good looking for a coupe. Too bad they don't sell the cars over her. Opel (General Motors) would do a lot better in NA if they had this model. I have heard that we will get the next generation Astra over here in NA I believe.

We already get the Opel Omega over here.

[Crash Test]

Ford and Volvo?

I dint think you understand why Volvo isnt in it this year...why would they change their situation next year? Do you think that privateers might make an entry? Wouldn't they still be fighting for the 4th row after Vauxhall?

[Danielsun]

So then, we have six (6!!) Astras and -- um -- that's all, folks!!

I have it on the best of authority that their driver line-up will be as follows:

888 Engineering
1. Jason Plato
2. Yvan Muller

Young Guns Racing
3. John Cleland
4. Derrick Warwick

Alsorans
5. Vincent Radermecker
6. Matt Neal

How's that, then, for the best Championship for ages? Mind you, they'd probably find some way to lose it!!

[Andy H]

it does appear next years BTCC will in fact be the one-make BTCC Astra Challenge

[kmchow]

Well Crash Test, as long as one of them (Ford or Volvo) race, I will be happy. Yeah, I know Ford owns Volvo.

I guess the ideal lineup would be Volvo=DTM, Ford=BTCC. I guess the BTCC '01 will become a h/b and coupe series next year? Cause if Ford races, it will almost 110% be the Focus that lines up on the starting grid? Ditto for Peugeot. Our only hope would be Honda with it's Accord or Civic sedans?

[Peter.S]

I'm at a loss
The 2001 BTCC championship season starts in eight months time and has been given the usual British treatment.
Being knocked from every angle even before it's begun.
Wind back the clock, 1990. The Sierra Cossies were being being replaced by TWO manufacturers Vauxhall (2 cars) and BMW (3 cars), the rest were made up by privateers. I seem to remember (I have the tapes) the competition got better throughout the years.
I believe that history will repeat it's self. Vauxhall are 'hoping' for six cars. Peugeot will almost certainly enter. I cant believe that Ford. Nissan and Honda will not be there.
Come on 'Race Fans' we should be encouraging them, not knocking them...

[kmchow]

I agree with Peter!!! Let's be more supportive for our flagship touring car series!! I will still support the BTCC depite the fact they are allowing coupes/hatchbacks to race.

[Andy H]

There's a lot of people on this site who support the series by paying cash to attend the meetings.

It doesn't mean you can't complain though - it has in my experience been pretty shoddy this year.

[Danielsun]

Originally posted by Peter.S
I'm at a loss
The 2001 BTCC championship season starts in eight months time and has been given the usual British treatment.
Being knocked from every angle even before it's begun.

But it wouldn't be a British sport if it weren't knocked!! Mind you, it is a bit pathetic, given that nobody actually knows what the cars will look like or how fast they'll go. The rules in terms of bodywork seem to be along similar lines to the reformed DTM, with lots of spectacular wings and things that don't actually do anything other than look nice.

I'm willing to give it a try, as long as the numbers on the grid go up, hopefully negating the need for Class B runners, who despite being in their own Championship, sometimes interfere too much with the Class A cars. A perfect example of this came at Snetterton when Gabriele Tarquini got held up while chasing Matt Neal. He would have got past, were it not for Mark Lemmer getting in his way at Russell. Wouldn't he, Woody?

If Vauxhall is to enter as many as six cars, with the above listed driver line ups (!), that should then spur on other manufacturers to compete with at least two or three cars. It's all speculation at the moment, but with a bit of luck it'll all come off and next season we'll be asking ourselves why we worried in the first place...

[Super Tourer]

I guess after years of trying Vauxhall have decided the only way that they will win the BTCC, is to fill the grid with - Vauxhall's......

Seriously the whole saloon car scene looks like a dogs breakfast. No doubt you will have seen that most of the circuits are pulling out of Powertour for next year, (politics between BMP and the BRDC), leaving only Croft and Silverstone as PT venues - so where that leaves the NSC, is anybody's guess.

Plus ESTC, Superstars and the BTCC are all courting the same car makers for their respective series, logic tells us that they will only do one of them.... Thats without Rouse and his Supercars series.

Despite their revamp the BTCC still doesn't have entrants falling at its feet. I applaud Vauxhall for announcing their entry early in an attempt to entice more car makers in - but so far thay are all sitting on their hands. If they all leave it too late, then nobody else will come in because, nobody else has come in !!!!!

I think that Berger's words are wise, in that BMW will only compete in a pan -european series to get better value and spread the cost over several countries budgets. I reckon other brands will think the same....

Its all about cost against return - so pan european has to better value....

The BTCC may yet be on sticky wicket for 2001.

[Dan Friel]

'Powertour' has already done its circuit deals for next year apparently.. So it's no problems for them.

BTCC is a very dead duck. NSC type formula has to be the way to go, as its run all over the world..

[TheShadow]

I think BMW hold the key. If they pick DTM, most everyone (Audi,Volvo-Japanese,French) will follow.

If it is SuperStars, most will follow them there.

The FIA could pick one formula over the other as the "Official Touring Car" rules. That could also effect what happens.

My bet:

DTM -stays the same-M-B, GM and Abt Audi in 2001
Maybe a few privateers in this years cars will bulk up the grid.

SuperStars formula (3.0 L)is a success and any national ST championships (starting with the BTCC)
switch to these rules. This formula becomes the world wide replacement for Super Touring.

ESTC-goes away-all the teams in the SuperStars.
V8-Stars-DOA
SuperCars-undercard events

Flammini has done it before with Superbikes.
How about a World SuperStars Series ?

The Shadow

[kmchow]

My only beef with Euro Superstars is that the cars being raced are so much larger than the ST ones? It kinda feels weird to me to have the Eurostarts be "the touring car" series. I always think it is nicer to have smaller cars which also represent the entry level market.

But in contrast, I hope the ESTC and others can last as long as possible. Either that, or the Formula saloons expands the ex-ST class.

OTOH, the Euro Superstars seem also to be micmicking a bit of V8 Supercars and their large car racing concept?

I wouldn't mind seeing Superstars be a 2nd touring car, but being "THE" top touring car series??

[Danielsun]

And what, exactly, is the problem with larger cars? Krap, you're on the same land mass as the USA! You should be used to big, beefy cars. V8 Supercars probably is the best Touring Car formula in the world and look at the size of the cars in that!

If I was to have a gripe, it would be that there's just no sense of trying to organise a Euope-wide series for one major series. By that, I don't just mean a grid of BTCC cast-off Super Touring cars racing on European tracks, but a new series to be the 'lead' category.

Preferably this formula would be adopted by all the countries running Touring Car Championships. Super Touring had that 'control' at the start of its lifetime (as did the universally accepted Group A) but escalating costs got in the way of that...

[TheShadow]

As the SuperStars are running 3.0 L cars in at least the first year, you may see Altezzas, Jag X-400, BMW 330 and Audi A4's.

You might be interested to know that a BMW factory driver in the DTC has asked that I switch my search for a sponsor from DTM 2001 to SuperStars.

I let Flammini know this by e-mail.

One month ago I could not see the sense of SuperStars.
We already had DTM, ESTC and new ST rules for BTCC that surely would be adapted by all.

Now I think that it makes a great deal of sense.

The Shadow

[kmchow]

Danielsun wrote:

>And what, exactly, is the problem with larger cars? Krap, >you're on the same land mass as the USA!
>
Please read comments below.

>You should be used to big, beefy cars. V8 Supercars >probably is the best Touring Car formula in the world and >look at the size of the cars in that!
>
Recall my statement--I always think it is nicer to have smaller cars which also represent the entry level market. You get people excited about the smaller, entry levels cars,once hooked on the marque, when more money is available, they will move up to the larger cars?

I'm NOT saying eliminate the Euro Superstars,but just wonder about it being made the national rules for many countries.

I think it definitely should be the "travelling" series--the F1 of touring cars; where they go and visit as many continents/countries as possible?? Or perhaps as a support series for the F1??? I think that would be a real cool market positioning for the series.

OTOH, I know you guys all hate Bernie!!

[Super Tourer]

The whole business of trying to put together a series is a nightmare. The car makers will claim that they weren't consulted, therefore the series devised isn't one that they want to run in.

Organisers will say that they have consulted car brands, who show a lot of interest, get everybody excited, then not do it. Been there, done that.....

We need to look at the logic behind each series.

The ESTC - The only reason that this would run again is to use up a surplus of old ST machinery. I can't see anybody building new cars for this as ST rules have already been written off as too expensive. The budgets for this would be fairly high.

Superstars. - The only car maker I have heard of being remotely interested in this is BMW. I can't see Jag doing this, they are already having their backside whipped in F1 by Merc and BeeMMM, I am sure they won't want to repeat this anywhere else at the moment. Merc are committed to DTM.
Who else has been mentioned as competitors.


BTCC - Going out on a limb again by setting rules that it appears nobody else will adopt. Looked at cost cutting from the wrong standpoint, in that, the real way to cut costs is to adopt a universal formula that car makers can take out of several budgets, as opposed to trimmimg ST rules, as they have done. Only Vauxhall have committed so far, interestingly, more car makers have said they won't do it that have expressed real interest in it....

So I guess its pick the bones out of that folks....

[Crash Test]

"I always think it is nicer to have smaller cars which also represent the entry level market. You get people excited about the smaller, entry levels cars,once hooked on the marque, when more money is available, they will move up to the larger cars?"

-Hmmmm....if you think thats the case in Europe...

What are the top selling models in the UK/Europe? In Australia they race the two top selling cars. If the top selling cars in Europe are Mokes and Minis, well why not have moke and mini races?

[Danielsun]

Don't go there!! There already are two Mini classes in Britain; surely no more are needed!! Not to mention all the teams like Florian's which run Minis in historic racing...

Mind you, there's certainly no shortage of shells...

I think the top-selling thing is a good point. Over here, I think the best sellers are the Mondeo and Focus (Ford), Laguna (Renault), Vectra and Astra (Vauxhall), 206, 306 and 406 (some Frenchie mob). So, really, they've already covered most of those in the BTCC. Keeping that up would be nice, otherwise I predict that a Vauxhall might actually win next year...

[Dan Friel]

There are now 4 mini classes in Britain - Super Mighty Minis and Mighty Mini's!!!!

And the thing is, that they provide better action than the BTCC ever really did...

I shall now run away...

[kmchow]

Crash Test wrote regarding my bigger car theory.

>-Hmmmm....if you think thats the case in Europe...
>
EXACTLY! That's why I don't think the Euro Superstar formula will NOT make a very good national racing series.

It will be good if it travelled the world like F1 and CART where certain markets (NA, Aus, etc..) are more big car friendly. That's why I think ST '01 should be backed since it races smaller (more Euro friendly) cars!!! And according to Danielsun, cars like the Vectra, Mondeo and 406 are perfect and are ex-ST cars!!

Of course, I am stubbornly wish they kept the rules closed to sedans, because coupes and h/b have many series already. In contrast, there aren't too many sedan only series.

Regarding cost cutting, I thought that ST '01 costs have already reduced car costs by 20-405???

At present, it seems manufacturers just want to go cheap and race their rally cars on a road course?? I think rallying and touring cars should be kept separate???

[Danielsun]

Don't ever say that again!! Rally cars and Touring Cars are totally different; so much so that rallying is far more expensive at the top levels of the sport.

Rallying is referred to as the 'F1 of the forests...'

As for the 'not many sedan series' thing: what about the biggest Touring Car series in the world? Are Commodores and Falcons not sedans? But anyway, as long as the racing's good, as fatbloke says in no uncertain terms, who cares...

[TheShadow]

As the ESTC and SuperStars are discussing the 2-litre SuperTouring and 3-litre SuperStars formula together,why could this not be the case in the BTCC?

If Flammini can get together with the Euro ST people, why can't he get the BTCC folks to consider this idea?
It's a sister Octagon company that runs things now.

Detuned, grandfathered 2-litre ST cars and new 3-litre Cars would make a good show. It would also give some teams and makes the time to gear up for the new 3L formula.



The Indy Shadow