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Old 2 Aug 2000, 20:26 (Ref:27894)   #1
Graham
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of these cars and people...

Machines
- Tracta
- Talbot-Darracq
- Armstrong-Siddeley Silver Sphinx
- 2-litre O.M
- Schneider
- Lorraine
- Delage
- Brescia Bugatti (what's the significance of 'Brescia'?)
- Lea Francis


Peeps
- George Duller
- Benjafield
- Count Louis Vorow Zborowski
- Nazzaro
- Kaye Don
- S.F. Edge
- Merz
- Campari
- Divo
- "Frothblower" Hayes
- John Cobb
- Ramponi
- Ivanovsky



Incidentally, the Silver Sphinx is quite interesting. It appears that it was entered into the Monte Carlo Rally n the 'comfort class'.

"We carried a complete tea and lunch set, with every cup, saucer and plate to match the car, the whole of which stowed away in two neat drawers under the front seats; there was also a folding leg rest which made the back of the car into a bed, and the back could be curtained off entirely, and separately lighted, even with lights to the mirror for shaving. Opening each door automatically switched on step lights, the luggage container had special lamps of its own; there was a compartment with tools all properly socketed, while right underneath the suit cases was a locker for heavy coats.
All the spares were housed in a neat tray; there were a reversing lamp, two fog lamps, a switch to make the dip and dim headlights correct, either for England or France, a spare fuel tank, permanent jacks on the axles, separate switches and separate fuses for every light, engine lamps, two big spades in special clips behind the two spare wheels, and coloured to match the car, a winding glass partition between front and back seats, a folding table on which the man off-duty in the back could have his meals, two thermos bottles, sandwich cases,a special container for the tyre chains, extra dashboard lamps, a sliding roof and finally, a chromium plated staff for a Union Jack of regulation size, one of silk for ceremonial, and one of bunting for ordinary occasions."


Surely that car would have looked like a mobile Blackpool Tower?! And weighed as much...


Cheers!
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Old 2 Aug 2000, 22:29 (Ref:27908)   #2
Gerard
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Graham, I don't know if this is of any help.
Whenever I want to know something about historic cars, I always go to the Motorbase, it's at http://www.motorbase.com
They have thousands of listings of historic cars and hundreds of pictures.
You can find photos of dozens of Armstrong Siddeley's, Bugatti's and Talbot's. They also have pictures of Delage and Lea Francis.

About Count Zborowski, when you go to the homepage of the Brooklands Society, http://www.brooklands.org.uk/intro.HTM you will find some pictures when you scroll down. The photo in the lower right corner is of Count Zborowski sitting in the famous Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.

I also found photos of Kaye Don and John Cobb.
If you go to Altavista and do the 'image search', type in their names between brackets and you'll find them.

That's all for now, I will look for more when I have the time.
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Old 2 Aug 2000, 22:39 (Ref:27911)   #3
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Graham,
Lorraine, Delage & Lea Francis all made more than one type of car. Is there one type you have in mind ?
Lea Francis also made motor bikes.
Brescia is the name of an Italian, I think, town that did hold a race in the 1920 / 1930's, this might have been something to do with this. See what you come up with on the links from Gerard.

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Old 3 Aug 2000, 00:28 (Ref:27950)   #4
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TimD should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTimD should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTimD should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Wa-hey, this could turn into a veritable can of worms...

First off, I've never come across an Armstrong Siddeley Silver Sphinx. The Armstrong radiator mascot was a Sphinx, and Tommy Sopwith raced an Armstrong engined sports racer in the 1950s called the Sphinx.

As for a Monte Carlo entered Armstrong Siddeley, well, Sapphire 346 and Star Sapphire models were not uncommon in the rally in the mid to late 1950s. Any idea of the driver who is quoted here?

I love the idea of the comfort award. In those days, it was quite possible for a Rolls Royce Silver Wraith, Bentley Mk6 or Delahaye 145 to gain a trophy for sheer opulence even if it had no hope of doing well in performance. I guess your Armstrong must have been going for that prize. Top British exponent of this class of rallying was one WM "Mike" Couper, and his personal Armstrong Siddeley Sapphire was found unrestored in a hedge about 8 years ago.

Lorraine? Well, there are several suspects here, which could all send you off at a tangent. Lorraine-Dietrich made Grand Prix cars before the great war, one of which was owned and raced by Malcolm Campbell in his early Brooklands outings. It was christened "Vieux Charles Trois", which may explain to people who have emailed me where my address comes from!

But there is also a marque known as La Lorraine, which did very well at Le Mans in 1924/5. I believe the two marques to be separate entities.

I think the Brescia Bugatti is the Bugatti Type 23? I may be wrong on this.

Schneider - are you after Rochet Schneider or Theophile Schneider? I suspect it may be Th. Schneider you want, as these too were pre 1914 GP cars. One is still running in VSCC events today. I may well have a piccie.

Finally, AUSTRIA, where are you, my friend? Graham, the wisest expert on Talbots that I know is our very own AUSTRIA, who knows more about them than I ever dreamed possible. I wonder if the Talbot Darracq you cite is the old 4-litre job that raced here 1938-1960? If so, it will also be found listed as a Talbot Lago T150C.

Dr J Dudley Benjafield was one of the original Bentley boys. I'm sure I can lay my hand on a picture somewhere.

I know for a fact I've got a biographical cutting of Giuseppe Campari around somewhere. I'll try to dig it out.

And I'll be doing even better with these queries when my archives computer comes back from being upgraded.
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Old 3 Aug 2000, 01:13 (Ref:27961)   #5
Graham
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All the cars and people come from that S.C.H. Davis book - I read it lately and think it's my duty to find out some background on such great individuals and machines.

I like to visualise what I'm reading - difficult when you've never heard of something before

I love the stories about the mechanical repairs done mid-race - pistons, cylinders, alternators, ... seems almost as though they wanted something to go wrong to make the 'game' more interesting. Someone invent a time machine...

The Armstrong-Siddeley was driven by Davis, and won the 'Confort' competition and third in its own class.
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Old 3 Aug 2000, 01:19 (Ref:27962)   #6
Graham
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Maybe this should be in the Armchair forum, but do you know of any good biographies of the above peeps and/ or good books covering the cars of that era? For a reasonable cost, you understand.

You know, reading the vintage articles in Motorsport (B.Boddy etc) each month didn't really light the fire for the old cars but reading the Davis book certanly has.

Cheers.
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Old 3 Aug 2000, 01:41 (Ref:27965)   #7
TimD
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TimD should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTimD should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTimD should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Aha! That narrows it down a bit.

I'm still not really the wiser for the "Silver Sphinx", but if SCH drove it, then it's got to be some wild non-catalogued competition car. Homologation wasn't what it is now, and some extraordinary beasties saw the light of day. For example, did you know the first Triumph Dolomite was a two-seat straight 8 racing monster, based on an 8c Alfa Romeo? In order to try to enter it for production car events, they built THREE.

I suspect La Lorraine is the car you want, also Rochet Schneider, as these would have been contemporary competitors to SCH's Bentley at Le Mans.


As to books and biographies, well, I can perhaps understand the sentiment about dear old Bill Boddy. Bless him, he's 86. He's allowed to tread water these days. But try to find some Motor Sport magazines from the mid to late 1970s, when Boddy was on top form, and he was still able to call on Brooklands celebrities for their reminiscences. Those are well worth reading, and if you are lucky, will literally cost pennies.

Also, try his "Aero Engined Racing Cars" and "Brooklands Giants", written about the machines he really loved, the big Zeppelin and Benz engined chargers, built by men who thought nothing odd about taking a 27 litre aircraft piston engine, and shoehorning it into a ladder chassis with spoon brakes and chain drive!

And these books are currently being seconded by every motoring bookshop in the land, so you won't have to pay more than about £7 for them.

Don't even think of trying to find a copy of Colonel Berthon's book on the works Le Mans Bentleys. While it would contain much on Duller and Benjafield, as well as Woolf Barnato, Jean Chassagne, Frank Clement, Bummer Scott and Clive and Jack Dunfee, it also commands a kings ransom. It's a little book, and I haven't seen it stickered for less than £50 in ten years.

Incidentally, Gerard is absolutely right about Count Zborowski being responsible for the creation of the Chitty Bang Bang cars. They were glorious beasties, powered by - if I remember rightly - 21 litre Benz engines.

They were actually named, not so much for the noise they made, but after a WW1 soldiers' song. The content of which, I am told, makes it very unsuitable for a children's fairytale film!
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Old 3 Aug 2000, 01:55 (Ref:27970)   #8
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Ah! Make that a 23-litre Maybach engine!
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Old 3 Aug 2000, 02:47 (Ref:27983)   #9
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Brescia is the name of the town where the Mila Miglia started. From there to Rome and back. There is a wonderfull museum in Brescia comemorating the Mila Miglia. Unfortunately while working in the next town I never was able to visit this museum.
The Bugatti probably was designed for the Mila Miglia, that is just a guess.
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Old 3 Aug 2000, 09:36 (Ref:28015)   #10
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The very first edition of the Mille Miglia was in 1927, while the Bugatti Brescia is the Type 13, dating back from 1920, and named Brescia after a race that was held in this town prior to the famous Mille Miglia.
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Old 3 Aug 2000, 10:18 (Ref:28019)   #11
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TimD should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTimD should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTimD should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Yes, Jarama, you're right. Type 13 it is. Now that I think about it, wasn't the T23 the semi-streamlined Bugatti "tank"?

Heck, I really don't know my Bugattis at all well. I can't easily tell the difference between a T35 and a T51.

It's only natural - I'm a Bentley enthusiast. Bugatti were the opposition!
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Old 3 Aug 2000, 14:04 (Ref:28071)   #12
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For what I know, the first Bugatti "Tank" was the 1923 Type 32, while the second one was the 1936/38 Type 57S and Type 57C.
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Old 3 Aug 2000, 15:24 (Ref:28081)   #13
Graham
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Cheers for all that. Keep it coming

How DO you remember all that?
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Old 3 Aug 2000, 19:35 (Ref:28114)   #14
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I´m the proud owner of a book written by Hugh G. Conway, covering the entire history of this famous italo-french enginner and his cars.

Is entittled "Bugatti / 'Le pur-sang des automobiles'". Truly a great book.
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Old 3 Aug 2000, 23:08 (Ref:28182)   #15
TimD
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TimD should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTimD should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTimD should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Yep, for Bugattistes, it's akin to the bible.

Like I said, they were the opposition. I'm really not up on my Bugattis.

Jarama, the "tank" I was thinking of was the early Strasbourg GP one, so I guess it's the 32 I had in mind.
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Old 4 Aug 2000, 14:02 (Ref:28325)   #16
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Yes, TimD,

The Strasboug G.P. type was the T32, while the T57's were Le Mans cars.
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