Why don't you race at the 'less glamourous' circuits?

[Peter Mallett]

kickstart.

He has.

[zefarelly]

I have . . . its marvellous, especially screeching to a virtual halt to get round the hairpin !!!

[Peter Mallett]

Told you.

[Tim Falce]

Originally posted by zefarelly
I have . . . its marvellous, especially screeching to a virtual halt to get round the hairpin !!!

What hairpin :confused:

[carrera]

Sounds like he went round the short circuit. Boy, did he miss out!

[Peter Mallett]

Bearing in mind its a couple of years since I was last there but I recall we called this The hairpin.

[Tim Falce]

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
Bearing in mind its a couple of years since I was last there but I recall we called this The hairpin.

Oh, you mean the bit that turns my pants brown when I understeer off in the wet

[Ian Sowman]

The hairpin on the club circuit is veeery tight. Turn right before you go up the Mountain.

[dtype38]

I enter races on a strict order of priorities...

1. Is the car working.
2. Am I available (not abroad /at a wedding etc.)
3. Is the track within 350mls of London
4. Is the track fun to drive.
5. Have I got any money.

On point 4. Fun to drive means challenging corners and lots of them, not long boring straights where everyone who spent more on their engines just drive past you! Top of my list are Oulton (full), Donnington, Croft, Cadwell (full). Bottom of my list are Mallory, Brands (indy), Silverstone (national)

[Gnomex]

OK dtype38 - I reckon I've seen you at Lydden, along with falcemob - is yours the red e-type? I happen to agree that all a straight does is show others how much you spent on the engine. Surely there is hardly any skill in driving in a straight line - the skill comes when you need to turn that circular thing in front of you to go left or right.

[zefarelly]

agreed dtype38, totally . . .theres nothing worse than out manouvering someone round a long bend only for his wallet to overtake you on the straight !!!

I was told that at the end of Hall bends is the hairpin . . . .its not exactly bur the adverse camber, hill dropping away and acuteness of the corner makes it a fantastic challenge, and yes we did the full circuit

[zefarelly]

oh, the total lack of run off adds to the 'brown trouser experience' as well

[Liam34]

I happen to agree that all a straight does is show others how much you spent on the engine. Surely there is hardly any skill in driving in a straight line - the skill comes when you need to turn that circular thing in front of you to go left or right.

I'm not so sure. There isn't much skill needed to go down a straight, and a more powerfull (ok, expensive) engine will do it faster, but a long straight makes your exit from the previous corner all the more vital, and if you have the skill and talent to get around that corner faster and leave with a higher exit speed tha the other guy, your reward is a higher speed all the way down the straight. Straights can reward better drivers in very big ways.

[Gnomex]

Point taken!

[Tim Falce]

Originally posted by dtype38
I enter races on a strict order of priorities...

1. Is the car working.
2. Am I available (not abroad /at a wedding etc.)
3. Is the track within 350mls of London
4. Is the track fun to drive.
5. Have I got any money.

On point 4. Fun to drive means challenging corners and lots of them, not long boring straights where everyone who spent more on their engines just drive past you! Top of my list are Oulton (full), Donnington, Croft, Cadwell (full). Bottom of my list are Mallory, Brands (indy), Silverstone (national)

On point 4, Donington, Croft and Cadwell have far longer straights than Brands and Mallory and Lydden only has a couple of very short ones so I don't see your logic there Ken.

Gnomex, they are red D-types and you have seen us both at Lydden altough you will have seen me there a lot more as it isn't technical enough for Ken's liking.

[dtype38]

Dunno how to do the "quote" thing yet, so this is about my choices of track. Sorry if I confused you falcemob, I didn't mean the bit about straights and my preference list to be directly connected. I guess my criteria on enjoying a track are (in order)

Lots of Corners
Corner combinations (ie complexes)
Elevation changes
Big speed changes (hairpins/chicanes)
Fast straights

I know some of these are linked and sometimes you can't have one without another, but everything is a compromise For example, Brands Indy should have most of the right ingredients for a great track, (if a bit short) but I just can't get on with the corners. I always brake too soon for Paddock (OK I'm a scaredy cat), too late for Druids, and can never find any grip in Clearways. Contrast that with Lydden which is similar in many ways, but a lot more fun. Don't get me wrong, Lydden is low on my list only because I like big tracks more, not because I don't like Lydden.

As for the straights, I completely agree with what was said about exit speed onto them, but I just prefer the challenge of corners close together cos that taxes the grey matter as well as the car's handling.

[zefarelly]

I think most of us are on the same wavelength here, we all want a track like an 8 year old would draw !

exit speed is important, but when you have a reasonably well handling car thats underpowered you soon find the limit speed wise, which is why Im now investing in a new engine !!!

[Tim Falce]

Originally posted by dtype38
Dunno how to do the "quote" thing yet,

Try clicking on the speech bubble with quote written by it and see what happens. It only took me a year of writing the html code manualy before I noticed it

[Peter Mallett]

There is also the question of cam. A cam based on low down torque requires a different technique to a full race cam. It means you can pull away from a corner quicker but don't have the revs to hit max speed on the straights. The full race is opposite but it means you need to get into and through the corner at a higher speed otherwise you bog down on the exit.

[zefarelly]

essentially what I'm doing . . . .hotte cam, and upgraded internals to cope, it'll mean I'm not stuck between gears in certain bends and have a higher top speed hopefully

I'm sure I'll think of something else once I've built it though !

[dtype38]

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
There is also the question of cam....

Agreed, but not that simple to choose which is better. I've got a long stroke engine with standard cams, which gives lots of torque mid range. Its great for getting round and out of corners and on short twisty tracks is well place to keep more powerful cars behind me. Trouble is, as you say, it wouldn't rev so I lost out to on tracks with long straights. The best I could do was learn to go into the last corner deep and wide and get get on the power earlier than anyone else.

This year I've upped the compression ratio and gone for road/race spec cas. It remains to be seen if this is a better or worse compromise

[Peter Mallett]

In Metros I was quite successful with the low down torque version but that's because you can wally about in a corner without much problem.

With old technology (rear wheel drive) you need revs and balance. It takes a lot more skill IMO and that's why I'm not so successful.

But I can still go flat through Eau Rouge. Yeeeeeeeeeeeehaw!!!!

[dtype38]

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
.....With old technology (rear wheel drive) you need revs and balance.

Yeh, hear that loud and clear! Last season I messed about with my front suspension geometry trying to get rid of a nasty tendency to understeer mid way round high speed corners. I cured that, but made the car tail happy coming out of slow corners, which meant I couldn't get the power down properly and completely screwed me on the straights! Had to put it back to where it was and wear stronger underpants

Never race abroad, but I can take Craner Curves flat out

[Red Dog]

Zefarelly - Lydden is excellent! Being a bit down on power is less important there and if your car and you like twisty bits....well, you're made! Paddock bend - last corner before start/finish - is the key. You have to 'wish' the car in as it is a quick corner (top for me) but you must not be late turning in or you will run out of road and there is no run off. Chessons is also a fast corner nicely cambered, a full 4w drift is mandatory just keep that pedal down!

BTW your cam thing...what Peter says is right, a long period cam will reduce your usable rev range and with a 4 spd box that is a problem. Go for something around 300 to 310 degrees max and power will come in at about 5500 but not tail off too early.

[zefarelly]

I'm going for a cosworth A8, rather large on the duration front, without the valve bending high lift some of the newer profiles get, the valves arent big enough to justify the extra lift, the duration is around 330 degrees I think, I could advance it with offset dowels/vernier, but I think leaving it straight will be best as I can rev to 8500 ok hopefully