Oulton

[Robin Marriott]

Originally Posted by Johno.UK

Isn't it standard penske coilover units all round so I don't think they could do that?

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

http://www.btcc.net/about/technical-overview/

'The foundation for NGTC is an emphasis on some common components – turbo, wastegate, intercoolers, ECU (engine control unit), instrumentation and dash, power management system, six-speed sequential gearbox, fuel tanks, differential, subframe, steering, brakes, clutch, wheels, dampers and suspension'

Alright, springs then. There’s still plenty you can do with spring rates, bump stops and so on.

Bear in mind you don’t get to see the full technical regulations shown to the teams, you need a ToCA technical login for that, the great unwashed get a very basic overview.

The diff is mentioned as a spec item but I’m sure it’s been mentioned before (by Plato maybe, in his season when he was blaming everything in the Subaru) that you can alter ramp angles within it?

[Sodemo]

FWD and RWD cars have the same diff...?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Robin Marriott

Alright, springs then. There’s still plenty you can do with spring rates, bump stops and so on.

Bear in mind you don’t get to see the full technical regulations shown to the teams, you need a ToCA technical login for that, the great unwashed get a very basic overview.

The diff is mentioned as a spec item but I’m sure it’s been mentioned before (by Plato maybe, in his season when he was blaming everything in the Subaru) that you can alter ramp angles within it?

The choice of springs is free, but there are certain constraints that are listed in the full technical regulations. Part of that is given - 'Coil springs are free, provided that they fulfil the following conditions; The maximum number per corner is two, provided that they are mounted in-line with one another and that they fit the specified damper. They must be made from ferrous material.' This has been in place since the introduction of NGTC regulations, so it would be a surprise if WSR were the first to attempt something on the 3-Series so many years down the road that others hadn't done before.

The possiblity of a 'fancy diff' was raised :

Originally Posted by JDMROB

Could they be running some sort of fancy diff?

All RWD cars use the Xtrac P1080 sequential gearbox mated to a P1153 differential. The P1153 is an 'externally adjustable plate type differential with multiple friction discs material options and various cross pin and ramp angles'.
FWD cars use the Xtrac P1046 gearbox, which contains 'an Xtrac cassette type plate unit [differential] with a choice of ramp angles, plate and preload settings' which can also be adjusted externally.

[touringlegend]

Hey maybe WSR are testing the new hybrid system out a few years early and it’s mated to the rear axle.

I jest of course. It’s a science and sometimes a black art making a race car go quick, and WSR have nailed it. Maybe they did their research and found something they liked the look of within the standard 3 series road car

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I am quite sure that if Team Dynamics thought that something on the BMW was against the rules they would have been in touch with TOCA about it immediately.

Originally Posted by psq43

It probably is something that's another loophole, like the Subaru. Something nobody thought of when the rules were discussed, that's not excluded nor included.

If the assumption is made that there is something significant on the BMW that gives them an advantage, and that its use is questionable - do the tin-hatters really think that:

A - this can only be identified by following the BMW closely?
B - that Cammish has been the first to identify it?
C - that Cammish didn't identify it during the 14 laps he was looking at the back of Oliphant's car at Croft?
D - that no other team has even looked at the back of the BMW when in parc ferme?

The car (and all components) have gone through homologation.
The car is regularly scrutinised at meetings.
The car is observed closely by all teams on tv coverage.

[Johno.UK]

Just watched Turks 2016 Subaru pole against his 2019 BMW pole. The BMW seems to not need so much balancing on the throttle through the corner and he can get back to full throttle earlier in the exit. Given the Subarus ability in corners that surprised me.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFXIbsbHsa4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-jP2AviPec

[Jason Plato]

What on earth are you talking about, what planet do you live on. I didn’t ignore the marshals, we were all having some friendly banter, at no point did they tell me I wasn’t allowed in that area. I was looking at the roll angles of all cars, etc etc. You sir to make your utterly ridiculous and fake remarks have an agenda.
What’s wrong with getting a lift back to the pits, how on earth am I responsible for the action of Matt and the Ford, I was waiting for Collard you muppet..
And what was your other stupid remark... not setting a great example to younger drivers...omg are you for real
Do us all a favour and shut up you bafoon




QUOTE=Liquoriceman;3915097]I was at Islands hairpin for the last race where Plato retired his car. Did the TV pick up that he ignored the marshals and went on to the track behind the tyre wall on the outside of the hairpin for about 5 laps? He was making out that he was observing the cornering difference between Collards car and the others, but would going beyond the marshal point be tolerated of any other driver? Not to mention he may distract the eye of drivers cornering - which may have been his tactics. Irresponsible!

And then there was the palava of him thumbing a lift of the warm down lap when Matt Neal stopped and one of the Motorbase cars rear ended him!

One rule for Jason and another for everyone else - not setting a great example to young drivers

Sent from my BLA-L09 using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

[Akrapovic]

This can't be a real account. Surely we don't have Jason Plato questioning someone who says he doesn't set a good example and then tells people to shut up and calls them a bafoon.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

This can't be a real account. Surely we don't have Jason Plato questioning someone who says he doesn't set a good example and then tells people to shut up and calls them a bafoon.

He has been on this Forum before, but even though he can have a moan, I don’t think I ever remember him going down to that level

[PeterY]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

This can't be a real account. Surely we don't have Jason Plato questioning someone who says he doesn't set a good example and then tells people to shut up and calls them a bafoon.

That sounds exactly like Plato and he’s fully in the right to do it, too many keyboard warriors thinking they know it all making unnecessary comments. It’s good the drivers want to get involved enough to come on forums like this to comment.

[auroan]

Originally Posted by PeterY

That sounds exactly like Plato and he’s fully in the right to do it, too many keyboard warriors thinking they know it all making unnecessary comments. It’s good the drivers want to get involved enough to come on forums like this to comment.

Yup. Far to many people comment with no grounding or understanding of what is actually going on. I dont know a single driver who ignores a marshal. Even at the lowly club level racing I do.... we are all massively thankful to the orange army. As we cant go racing with out them.

[S griffin]

And they are not paid for their work either, they do it voluntarily

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by S griffin

He has been on this Forum before, but even though he can have a moan, I don’t think I ever remember him going down to that level

You dont remember him turning up on pistonheads that time then

[S griffin]

I seem to remember him calling someone a weirdo, but nothing worse than that

[GOLDFINGER]

Originally Posted by PeterY

That sounds exactly like Plato and he’s fully in the right to do it, too many keyboard warriors thinking they know it all making unnecessary comments. It’s good the drivers want to get involved enough to come on forums like this to comment.

My thoughts entirely well said JP

[Evantra]

https://twitter.com/dancammish/statu...537858560?s=21

Dynamics VS Hill continues...

[3marinadrive]

Originally Posted by Evantra

https://twitter.com/dancammish/statu...537858560?s=21

Dynamics VS Hill continues...

So Dan Cammish took a little joke from Simon Hill (Jake's Dad) cos he posted he was asked to drive the Ayrton Senna McLaren but didn't fit...Simon commented that Jake would fit as he is 5' 8" like Senna was....Cammish said Simon was just trying to promote his son, Simon said sorry for making a joke....

I have noticed that both Jake and Matt have kept pretty quiet - almost all the comments have been from 'fans' - and everyone has their favourites and their opinions ...both of them have been pretty cool - mind you they are both scheduled to be on 'Tin Top Tuesday' with Alan Hyde....could be fun!

Ultimately you have a seasoned pro and a feisty youngster - choose who you prefer....one is close to retiring, the other has proved he is a race winner (ish!)....

Both are quick ...one is a champion, the other is fast enough and young enough to be a champion....

[Alfisti]

Maybe Cammish's idea is to go and get a 3 series? I mean seriously. Let's face it he's proven himself as very effective in RWD machinery prior to his BTCC career to date with Honda.

Add to the mix the politics of Honda factory support continuing given the decision to close the UK factory does not rest well with the poor souls at the factory: I fully expect Honda to honour the deal with Dynamics for the agreed duration and no more.

There's nothing to stop a team other than WSR buying some BMW shells and constructing racecars after all...

I think Hills penalty seems harsh given he made a clumsy mistake that to my eye was no clumsier than, say, Rob Collards running wide into Ash Sutton. It definitely mandated a penalty given the example from the Brands meeting where Sonic was penalised.

It seems we've reached the season half way mark in ni time at all... I've no idea where time goes. Presuming the traditional Snetterton test is the next time we'll see some track action?

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Maybe Cammish's idea is to go and get a 3 series? ?

how long is his contract with Dynamics ?


with Jordan's possibly exiting the series that WSR seat will b a VERY desirable seat !!

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by 3marinadrive

So Dan Cammish took a little joke from Simon Hill (Jake's Dad) cos he posted he was asked to drive the Ayrton Senna McLaren but didn't fit...Simon commented that Jake would fit as he is 5' 8" like Senna was....Cammish said Simon was just trying to promote his son, Simon said sorry for making a joke....

Sorry, I know from almost all of your posts that you are a big supporter of the Hill's but you have missed a little bit of Simon's comment out which means its lost the context it needs:

Dan: A dream moment. I was honoured to be asked by Honda to drive the legendary McLaren Honda MP4/4 at Goodwood. Not only one of the greatest ever F1 cars but driven by maybe the greatest driver of them all. Heartboken to say it wasn’t to be. At 6ft 2 I simply don’t fit�� #F1 #Senna

Simon: @JakeHillDriver would fit....! #ayrtonsennawasfivefooteight

Dan: I was feeling quite disappointed but now I know your boy would fit it’s really cheered me up. Go promote your boy somewhere else

Simon: Sorry Dan - I am so sorry to have dared to make a joke with the best @BTCC driver on the grid #lightenupprincess


Dan was clearly disappointed had a completely fair point when being told Jake would fit, there is clearly bad feeling between Dynamics and Hill, so the comment was probably not best timed, Simon didn't then need to add his sarcastic comment or his "lighten up princess", and clearly isn't someone just saying "sorry just making a joke".

Simon Hill is probably an ok guy and I know he tries to look out for his son but if i were honest he comes across as a bit of an embarrassment with his outbursts (remember his issues with Team Hard last year) and I wonder if Jake would actually have had a better BTCC career to date if it wasn't for daddy in tow winding people up the wrong way and guiding him to some of his decisions.
You dont see this behavior from parents of others in his generation of drivers and whilst we may see a bit of that of the Neal's and Jordan's (not so much), they at least have the careers and results to back any arrogance up

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by btccbloke

Simon Hill is probably an ok guy and I know he tries to look out for his son but if i were honest he comes across as a bit of an embarrassment with his outbursts (remember his issues with Team Hard last year)

Looking back at what Simon posted then, most of his comments on twitter were directed at the Brisky and TPC Racing accounts....

I think Cammish's response to Simon's tweets were based on the comment previously that Hill's team wanted to put the incident behind them and move on. Clearly that was not the case if they couldn't resist a post (even if intended as humorous).

It's a bit like the Rich Energy / Whyte Bikes situation - some people might be best advised to back off social media for a while....

[btccbloke]

hmm.. I'm sure there were a few digs made at Tony and his team at the time, tho they may have been quite wisely deleted, i remember thinking at the time his twitter comments were not doing Jakes prospects any favors

[Johno.UK]

Looking at the latest pics JP has posted on his twitter it would appear that BMW have taken a leaf out of Subarus book and have the engine a fair way back. I thought they must have good weight distribution when I noticed how far back the mandatory lifting positions were compared to other cars but I didn't realise that was how they had done it.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Johno.UK

Looking at the latest pics JP has posted on his twitter it would appear that BMW have taken a leaf out of Subarus book and have the engine a fair way back. I thought they must have good weight distribution when I noticed how far back the mandatory lifting positions were compared to other cars but I didn't realise that was how they had done it.

To be honest though, BMW road car engines are fitted well back in standard form anyway and so often require removal of the scuttle panel to access parts of the engine that aren't even at the back of it!

[porsche962fan]

looks like twitter "argument" between Jordan and JP