Group A Golfs & Audis

[KA]

OK, just when you thought it was safe, and we'd got all the Group A touring car history threads you could ever wish for, there's one important car (or group of related cars...) that keep popping up in other threads, but we've never tackled in their own right- the VW Golf.

Along with the Corolla, it was almost the backbone of the 1600cc class, particularly in Europe where there seemed to be hordes of them. It was also seen in 1.8-litre form in Class B, where it struggled a bit to stay on terms with the bigger-engined Alfas

There were quite a few in earlier years in the BTCC, but they seemed to go out of fashion, briefly coming back into vogue in Mk2 16v form when the BTCC introduced a 1600-2-litre class in the late 80's- until John Cleland and the Astra GT/E turned up...

The most prolific British Group A Golf campaigner was probably Alan Minshaw, but others who ran them include Alan Greenhalgh, John Morris, Andrew Jeffrey and James Shead. I think Richard Lloyd, who was one of the pioneers of using the Golf in UK saloon racing in the 70's also fielded a Group A example in the early 80s, though he's probably better known for his Group 1/2 cars a few years before. They were hugely popular as a 1600cc class car in Europe, even after the 16v Corolla largely became the dominant force in the class, there were still plenty of Golfs- Also a few in Japan, as shown by Jesper recently. Were there any Group A ones in Australia? I don't recall one, but...

It's also worth including the Golf's closely related cousins, the VW Scirocco and Audi 80- both commonly raced in Europe, and less often in the UK. The Sciroccos largely disappeared by the mid-80's, but Peter Seikel's squad were campaigning Audis up to about 1987

Do we want to take in the bigger-engined fwd Group A Audis as well? I'm thinking of the fwd Audi Coupes used in the early years of Class B,
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-09-12-041.jpg and Chris Heyers Audi '5+5' (is that the Australian-market designation for the 5-cylinder versions of the Audi 80?) seen at Bathurst in '85, or the US-spec 5-cyl 'Audi 4000' entered by the Belgian VW-Audi Club at Spa around 1983/4
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-07-31-050.jpg


To kick off, a few pics...

Alan Greenhalgh's 'Ordebel' Mk1, Spa 85
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-07-28-079.jpg
Alan Minshaw's 'Demon Tweeks' Mk2
http://www.vwmotorsport.com/download...018.9.1998.jpg
RAS Sport Scirocco- Spa '83, Herregods/Bergmeister/Trint
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-07-31-062.jpg
Audi 80- Richard Lloyd/Jeff Allam, 1982 TT Silverstone
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-09-12-043.jpg

OK, over to you- usual routine, who raced them, where and when, reminiscences and pics, anyone got a Group A Golf gathering dust in their shed etc, plus the usual diversions into Group A rally Golfs, Prodsaloons and models

[Jesper OH]

Thank you KA for starting the thread - you beat me to it

I have put together a list of available VWs and Audi taking the freedom to include VW Polos and Jettas as well as the bigger types of Audi 80s of which the Coupé was technically identical. Hope its alright.

The Volkswagens first.
*denotes turbo- or supercharging
A1- denotes Group 1 car transferred to Group A

Volkswagen Polo Typ 86
A1-5601 / 1975.07.01-198x.xx.xx / 896 cc / VW Polo
A1-5645 / 1977.01.01-198x.xx.xx / 771 cc / VW Polo + Audi 50
A1-5690 / 1978.01.01-198x.xx.xx / 1272 cc / VW Polo + Audi 50
A5028 / 1982.05.01-1990.12.31 / 1093 cc / VW Polo
A5031 / 1982.05.01-1995.12.31 / 1272 cc / VW Polo
A5139 / 1983.05.01-1995.12.31 / 1272 cc / VW Polo Coupe GT
A5438 / 1991.10.01-2001.12.31 / *1273 cc / VW Polo Coupe G40
A5439 / 1991.10.01-2001.12.31 / 1273 cc / VW Polo Coupe

Volkswagen Golf Typ 17 / Mk. I
A1-5583 / 1975.01-01-198x.xx.xx / 1093 cc / VW Golf
A1-5733 / 1979.01.01-198x.xx.xx / 1471 cc / VW Golf Diesel
A1-5731 / 1979.01.01-198x.xx.xx / 1588 cc / VW Golf GTI
A1-5732 / 1979.01.01-1988.xx.xx / 1471 or 1588 cc / VW Golf LS
A5042 / 1982.06.01-1985.12.31 / 1471 cc / VW Golf Diesel
A5069 / 1982.10.01-1988.12.31 / *1588 cc / VW Golf GTD
A5096 / 1983.01.01-1989.12.31 / 1781 cc / VW Golf GTI
A5172 / 1983.10.01-1987.12.31 / 1588 cc / VW Golf GTI

Volkswagen Jetta Typ 16 / Mk. I
A1-5802 / 1980.07.01-19xx-xx / 1588 cc / VW Jetta GLI

Volkswagen Scirocco Typ 53 and 53B / Mk. I and II
A1-5734 / 1979.01.01-19xx.xx.xx / 1588 cc / VW Scirocco (Mk. I and II)
A1-5735 / 1979.01.01-19xx.xx.xx / 1471 cc / VW Scirocco (Mk. I and II?)
A5175 / 1983.11.01-1997.12.31 / 1781 cc / VW Scirocco GTI 1800 (Mk. II only)
A5314 / 1986.11.01-1997.12.31 / 1781 cc / VW Scirocco 16V (Mk. II only)

Volkswagen Golf Typ 19 / Mk. II
A5212 / 1984.04.01-1996.12.31 / 1781 cc / VW Golf GTI
A5295 / 1986.03.01-1996.12.31 / 1781 cc / VW Golf GTI 16V
A5337 / 1987.07.01-1996.12.31 / 1781 cc / VW Golf Syncro
A5398 / 1989.12.01-1995.12.31 / *1764 cc / VW Rallye-Golf G60

And now some Audis

Audi 80 / 90
A1-5559 / 1974.04.01-198x.xx.xx / 1588 cc / Audi 80 GT
A1-5774 / 1980.01.01-198x.xx.xx / 1588 cc / Audi 80 GLE
A1-5808 / 1980.12.01-198x.xx.xx / 2145 cc / Audi 80 2.2
A5010 / 1982.02.01-1989.12.31 / 2145 cc / Audi 80 2.2
A5012 / 1982.02.01-1988.12.31 / 1588 cc / Audi 80 GLE
A5156 / 1983.07.01-1989.12.31 / 2145 cc / Audi 80 quattro
A5223 / 1984.05.01-1991.12.31 / 1781 cc / Audi 80 GTE/Sport
A5276 / 1985.07.01-1992.12.31 / 2226 cc / Audi 90 quattro
A5346 / 1988.01.01-1996.12.31 / 2310 cc / Audi 90 quattro B3
A5383 / 1989.04.01-1996.12.31 / 1984 cc / Audi 80 2.0 E

Audi Coupé
A1-5829 / 1981.03.01-19xx.xx.xx / 1921 cc / Audi Coupé 2.0
A5011 / 1982.02.01-1992.12.31 / 2145 cc / Audi Coupé 2.2
A5013 / 1982.02.01-1992.12.31 / 1921 cc / Audi Coupé 2.0
A5284 / 1986.01.01-1992.12.31 / 2226 cc / Audi Coupé Quattro

Now its time to pin point various cars!

Jesper

[Jesper OH]

Ernst Schröter

http://www.teambild.se/arkiv/details...1600ff9b8fc5b6

The link refers to Dane Ernst Schröter and his pristine VW Golf GTI 16V Mk. II. From its debut in 1984 the car started as a normal 8 valve version then upgraded to 16V specs for the 1987 season. In the period from 1984 to 1993 the car brought its owner two Danish titles, one was the 1985 Group A Championship while 1993 saw him crowned with the Super Saloon title. The car was also used for various Nordic championship meetings – as this one in Mantorp depicts – but I don’t think he won any titles with this car though. From a reliable witness it still stands in the Schröter work shop as it was brought home from the final race of 1993 awaiting some historic racing!

A bit of background for this very colourful driver would perhaps be in place, so here goes. Hailing from Grindsted on the west coast of Jutland he bears evident traces that this part of Denmark was German from 1864-1921. Not only is the family name more German than Danish but when he was bossing his mechanics in the family team even in this millennium it usually happened in the German tongue – all of this happening with his trademark cigar stump in the corner of his mouth.
The Family has been VAG dealers for decades which naturally also selected the cars. Ernst thus started his career on the dirt tracks of the late 1960s in an NSU. During the mid-1970s he made a complete switch to the race tracks firstly in NSU but soon he made his name in Audi 80s with which he took his first Danish title in 1977. A switch to the Volkswagen brand saw him racing his first Golf GTI in 1979 narrowly defeated by Erik Høyer which repeated itself in 1980. This period also saw another of the often aggressive Schröter speciality in the form that no season would be complete without rolling the car at least once. His also supposed to have made a guest appearance in the American Volkswagen Rabbit Cup at no less place than Talladega in early 1980.
With the introduction of Group A for 1982 Ernst Schröter was the first taker in Denmark. Running for Nordic honours (I presume this was solely run for Group A cars, but don’t know) as well as Danish points he build himself a brand new Golf GTI and soon learned about the difference between the old Group 1+ and the new Group A. Dampers were the problem. By June 1983 his Mk. I was updated to 1.8 configurations and a few weeks later he was running Thomas Lindström (Volvo 240 Turbo) a close second at the Anderstorp Nordic meeting. In Denmark he found competition a bit tougher but at the forth and final meeting things gelled big way. Rain was prevailing and his proven wet weather talent (the dirt tracks) was proven beyond belief winning convincingly.

Jesper

[bigears]

http://www.clubgti.com/FORUM/showthread.php?t=112850

I wonder if Nick Cresswell's Golf that took part in the ModSaloon race at the 1987 Birmingham Superprix is entitled in this thread?

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by KA

To kick off, a few pics...

Alan Greenhalgh's 'Ordebel' Mk1, Spa 85
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-07-28-079.jpg

That's fairly signficant for that particular year KA. Greenahalgh was a BTCC regular in 1983/84 and was usually the main opposition to the Datapost and Brooklyn RS1600's. However he didn't run in '85.

The line up includes Alan Minshaw for the 24 Hours there, as well as a Belgian. Did Greenahalgh sell his car abroad for '85 and get invited back to share it? and was Minshaw asked to share because he was a GTi specialist?

I seem to recall that the car was originally owned by Minshaw as well, could that be right anyone?

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by KA

Alan Greenhalgh's 'Ordebel' Mk1, Spa 85
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-07-28-079.jpg

What's that "thing" below the front bumper?

Jesper

[chunterer]

I often wondered what that 'thing' was too. It certainly had it during 1984, but not sure about prior to that?

Some kind of front splitter? Got a feeling the later Mk1 GTi road cars had it on them though.

[KA]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

What's that "thing" below the front bumper?

Jesper

Hmm, I hadn't noticed that.....It certainly isn't the 'standard' front spoiler seen on Group A Golf GTIs at that time...
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-07-28-076.jpg
(Chapel/Norhomme/Erez at the same race)
...and it seems to have gone by the time the car appears at Zolder later in the season, where it's wearing the usual Golf spoiler....
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-09-29-068.jpg

Some of the Golf teams do seem to have used fairly prominent brake ducting around the front spoilers.....
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-09-29-092.jpg
(Ripolles/Rutten, again at Zolder)

....so I wonder if it's just a fairly elaborate solution to providing ducts for brake cooling- and is therefore in no way whatsoever intended to increase the efficiency of the front spoiler.....

That might explain why it's disappeared by Zolder...

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

That's fairly signficant for that particular year KA. Greenahalgh was a BTCC regular in 1983/84 and was usually the main opposition to the Datapost and Brooklyn RS1600's. However he didn't run in '85.

The line up includes Alan Minshaw for the 24 Hours there, as well as a Belgian. Did Greenahalgh sell his car abroad for '85 and get invited back to share it? and was Minshaw asked to share because he was a GTi specialist?

I seem to recall that the car was originally owned by Minshaw as well, could that be right anyone?

As you said, he didn't run the BTCC in '85. I've got some old copies of Performance Car magazine from 1983/4, which had a regular column by Art Markus on the BTCC- titled 'Art on A', they included a bit of background story as well as the race reports- I'll have a look at those and see if they shed any light.

I don't remember whether Minshaw originally owned the Greenhalgh Golf- Were Minshaw's Golfs (the Mk1 and the first Mk2 from 1985 at least) built by Andy Rouse by any chance- that thought rings a very vague bell?

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by KA

Hmm, I hadn't noticed that.....It certainly isn't the 'standard' front spoiler seen on Group A Golf GTIs at that time...
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-07-28-076.jpg
(Chapel/Norhomme/Erez at the same race)
...and it seems to have gone by the time the car appears at Zolder later in the season, where it's wearing the usual Golf spoiler....
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-09-29-068.jpg

Some of the Golf teams do seem to have used fairly prominent brake ducting around the front spoilers.....
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-09-29-092.jpg
(Ripolles/Rutten, again at Zolder)

....so I wonder if it's just a fairly elaborate solution to providing ducts for brake cooling- and is therefore in no way whatsoever intended to increase the efficiency of the front spoiler.....

That might explain why it's disappeared by Zolder...

I was thinking of the rear mounted oil cooler on the TWR Jaguars of late 1983 too, also non spoilers of course!

Jesper

[KA]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

I was thinking of the rear mounted oil cooler on the TWR Jaguars of late 1983 too, also non spoilers of course!

Jesper

So was I!!!!

http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-06-12-002.jpg

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by KA

I don't remember whether Minshaw originally owned the Greenhalgh Golf- Were Minshaw's Golfs (the Mk1 and the first Mk2 from 1985 at least) built by Andy Rouse by any chance- that thought rings a very vague bell?

Yes I think you're right KA, ARE did build Minshaw's car, or at least maintained it and latterly looked after Greenhalgh's car too...

The last time I saw anything in depth related to Alan Minshaw's Group A cars, the golf included, was in an article in that lost gem of a magazine 'Ingear' a few years ago.

[Jesper OH]

Speaking of Minshaw. From the 1987 Autosport BTCC reports he ran a production spec Golf 16V before his proper Group A mount was ready. When exactly was the Group A car debuted?

Jesper

[chunterer]

Jesper, Alan Minshaw first ran a Mk2 GTi in the last few rounds of the 1984BTCC.

It didn't continue into 1985 though as far as I am aware.

He later entered a 16v version in '87 as you say, but again I reckon it was later on in that season before it was entered in a full season in 1988. I don't remember a prodsaloon car running though.

[Jesper OH]

I don't think he managed a full season in 1988 either, as Andrew Jeffrey and James Shead eventually decided the class C battle among them in their former Rally Golfs. I believe that Minshaw sold his 16V to John Morris midway through the 1989 season when Morris about totalled his own 16V.

Jesper

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Jesper, Alan Minshaw first ran a Mk2 GTi in the last few rounds of the 1984BTCC.

It didn't continue into 1985 though as far as I am aware.

He later entered a 16v version in '87 as you say, but again I reckon it was later on in that season before it was entered in a full season in 1988. I don't remember a prodsaloon car running though.

Minshaw's first Mk2 Golf did make a couple of 1985 appearances- the Silverstone GP support BTCC round, and the TT where it was shared with Art Markus and Tony Hill. Art Markus wrote an article on the TT for Cars & Car Conversions magazine- I think I've got a copy of that somewhere:
http://www.vwmotorsport.com/download...209.9.1985.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...C/scan0001.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...C/scan0002.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...C/scan0005.jpg


He drove a Hodgetts Corolla in '86, and Round 1 in '87, before returning with a Golf for the GP Support at Silverstone- he then did most of the rest of the season, missing Snetterton and the last round at Silverstone
http://www.vwmotorsport.com/vwpics/I...20IMG_1367.jpg

[KA]

According to a thread on the Club GTI forum, one of the Minshaw Mk2s survives in Scotland where it's been used for sprints and hillclimbs

http://www.vwmotorsport.com/vwpics/images/DSCF0698.JPG
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...nshawGolf4.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...nshawGolf3.jpg

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by KA

He drove a Hodgetts Corolla in '86, and Round 1 in '87, before returning with a Golf for the GP Support at Silverstone- he then did most of the rest of the season, missing Snetterton and the last round at Silverstone
http://www.vwmotorsport.com/vwpics/I...20IMG_1367.jpg

Dispite the wheels this car looks too softly sprung to be a proper Group A car - but nice links from KA and Chunterer

Jesper

[KA]

Could it be the prodsaloon doing Group A duty? The pic looks like Silvestone, and the GP meeting BTCC round always used to bring out a few prodsaloons to play, sometimes upgraded to something like Grp A spec, but often just bolting on a set of slicks. Maybe Minshaw used his prodsaloon if the proper Group A Golf wasn't ready?

[Jesper OH]

Quoting the 1987 Autosport GP BTCC qualifying report:

Heading the Class C runners, Roger Saunder's UniqueAir R5 was streets ahead of Colin Pearcy's Metro, and Alan Minshaw's prodsaloon Golf - the Group A car still unready.

Perhaps Jason can shead some light on this matter?

Jesper

[Jesper OH]

Frank de Jong has been kind enough to identify the Mk. I VW Golf GTIs of Peter Mamerow and Karl Ashölter, both seen at the Zolder DPM/DTM race on August 19, 1984:
http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...alenpokal.html

Some pictures from the lesser Deutsche-Automobil-Rundstrecken-Trophäe also at Zolder and to the best of my knowledge held at the same meeting.
Karl Ashölter again or Weber according to credits:
http://www.gyle.be/mkportal/modules/...bum=303&pos=11

Some more Golfs from this race:
Klaus-Rüdiger Löw:
http://www.gyle.be/mkportal/modules/...lbum=303&pos=0
Balk:
http://www.gyle.be/mkportal/modules/...lbum=303&pos=2
Horst Hahne:
http://www.gyle.be/mkportal/modules/...lbum=303&pos=5
Pfenning:
http://www.gyle.be/mkportal/modules/...lbum=303&pos=9
I have a few results and race reports from other DART races of 1984 naming Manfred Haase, Gottfried Eckle and Alfred Kunze as other Golf GTI 1.6 drivers.

Finally a pair of VW Polos:
http://www.gyle.be/mkportal/modules/...bum=303&pos=10
Michael Pötschke:
http://www.gyle.be/mkportal/modules/...lbum=303&pos=1

[KA]

I managed to find the Art Markus article on the first Minshaw Mk2 from CCC Magazine- basically it's Markus' impressions of competing in the 1985 TT in the Golf, and includes some interesting background on the car. It confirms a lot of what we've speculated about concerning the Mk2 as a Group A racer, in that it was badly affected by the class structure and the late homologation of the 16v

The history of the car is confirmed in the article- built by Rouse, and made it's debut in the 1984 BTCC before being parked as uncompetitive:

'During 1984 Minshaw campaigned the red Golf 2 in the early rounds of the Trimoco RAC British Saloon Car Championship in the expectation that the 16-valve engine would soon be in production and homologated. He soon gave that up as a bad job though. The car, for obvious reasons, was hopelessly off the pace, a pace made much hotter that year by the introduction of turbocharging into Class B in the form of Graham Goode's incredibly fast Nissan Bluebird Turbo. Minshaw realised that with the high running costs inherent in Group A, he was effectively throwing good money after bad. The outclassed VW, initally built and set up by Andy Rouse had already cost the Demon Tweeks man no less than 25k. Meanwhile, the homologation of the 16-valver seemed to get further and further away....

....It was largely because the Volkswagen is to all intents and purposes a white elephant that we were lucky enough to land a ride at the TT. Knowing that the car is neither competitive, nor -the two are virtually inseperable- saleable, Minshaw is determined to at least get some fun out of it. That meant entering the Trimoco round that accompanies the British GP and the British rounds of the ETC; no expectations, no high hopes, no pressure from sponsors eager for results

[chunterer]

That's a good snippet KA, I didn't think the 8v Mk2 ran early in the '84 season, as I can't remember seeing it at Donington's season opener, or any of the Easter meetings. I thought it was just towards the end of that year that it appeared?

Those figures are very expensive for the time... £25k build for that car only for it to be so outclassed?! Crikey, Jon Dooley reckoned the ARDT team ran on something like £30k for the whole year in '84 with the GTV6!!!

I also foind some 1983 results and with regards to Greenhalgh running Minshaw's old Mk1, well I seem to have forgotten that Mr Demon Tweek himself actually won the class with his Mk1 and Greenhalgh was in another car. So either Greenhalgh ran an ex Minshaw (or maybe ex John Morris) Grp 1 car or it was brand new?

[Jesper OH]

Good background info on the Manshaw Golf, KA, but what happened to this "useless" car? Sometime during 1987 Minshaw got himself a proper 16 valve Golf but was this new then or build over the original '84 8 valve?

And now ...to something completely different, the Audi Coupé GT5E

Two Audi Coupé participated in the 1982 ETCC under the Vötex Team banner, which seems to have had close connections at Audi Sport. From Autosport I’ve read that although the cars appeared similar they were in fact prepared separately. Willy Bergmeister was behind one car with Manfred Trint co-driving while Peter Seikel prepared the other with Lothar Schörg as regular co-driver in the other. The GTI Engineering 80 at the Silverstone TT was the single spare car for both teams and somehow this was an 80 and not a Coupé! Looking at the technical data on the RSC site I discover that the Seikel car’s supposed to be a 1.9 straight 4 while the Bergmeister car was a 2.1 straight 5, while Frank de Jong claims both to be the bigger engine used!? Both versions were homologated but I doubt that the benefit of a lower weight (if the car could be lightened to the minimum 880 kg) of the 1.9 would outweigh the power deficit of the 2.1.

Willy Bergmeister:
Brno: http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-06-13-025.jpg
TT: http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-09-12-041.jpg

Peter Seikel:
Brno: http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-06-13-026.jpg

Richard Lloyd:
TT: http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-09-12-043.jpg

The final tally shows three division 2 victories from 11 races and second in class points. Lacking in power but outdoing the GTV in handling department at this stage.

During the 1983 season Bergmeister seems to have disappeared while Seikel put his faith in the 1.6 Audi 80 GLE. Heinz Gilges and Reinhard Wimmers shared a Coupé for at least five rounds, with Bergmeister replacing Wimmers in a one-off appearence in this car. Neusser Motorsport Club was the entrant for at least three of these races and somehow I have a note that Peter Seikel was actually running the car. Some clarifying in this would be very helpfull.

Dane Henrik Pilgaard rallycrossed a Coupé during the mid-1980s making a one-off at Jyllands-Ringen for the opening round of the 1986 Danish group A series. I don't know the pre-history of this cars where abouts but will dig into that.

Jesper

[lifeline-fire]

The Minshaw MK1 golf was the ex John Morris car, previously the ex Richard Lloyd car.
VW UK gave the car to John Morris when Richard Lloyd started to run the Audi 80s in Gp 1 with Stirling Moss Martin Brundle and Tony Lanfranchi. After a couple of seasons the car was then sold to Alan Minshaw but conveted to Group A spec. John Morris then ran a Scirocco with the backing of VW. However the 1600CC car was out of homlogation after the first season of Gp A and the only alternative was the 1800cc, which put the car up a class and against the Alfas etc.
The John Morris Mk2 Golf in GpA form was the ex James Shead car re shelled. the car was outclassed by the arrival of the Astra.The Morris car was destroyed at Donington park late in the season. The Minshaw car was hired for the last race of the year at Silverstone by Morris.