Ferrari team orders

Fuel · 6 Mar 2002, 06:18 (Ref:229024)

if there where only a rule that allowed a team to race with only one driver.... ferrari are insistent that both drivers are equal but we know that isn't true. poor rubens has to put up with michael's megalomania. i just hope that one day ferrari will see that there is more to racing than michael.

f1manoz · 6 Mar 2002, 07:57 (Ref:229050)

The situation is there. We have to put up with it. Simple as that.

I know some say 'Wait until another driver gets in there who can challenge.' True, but who says he will be allowed to challenge anyway?

Frankly, team orders are a part of F1. It's just that Ferrari make use of them when they have to for one certain driver.

ttc · 6 Mar 2002, 07:59 (Ref:229052)

Quote:

Originally posted by Fuel
if there where only a rule that allowed a team to race with only one driver.... ferrari are insistent that both drivers are equal but we know that isn't true. poor rubens has to put up with michael's megalomania. i just hope that one day ferrari will see that there is more to racing than michael.

We know? No, I don't. Really? How? Proof?

ttc · 6 Mar 2002, 08:23 (Ref:229063)

Quote:

Originally posted by Fuel
if there where only a rule that allowed a team to race with only one driver.... ferrari are insistent that both drivers are equal but we know that isn't true. poor rubens has to put up with michael's megalomania. i just hope that one day ferrari will see that there is more to racing than michael.

Ferrari only insist that they treat them EQUALLY.

Ferrari NEVER insist that the drivers are EQUAL.

And frankly, I believe Ferrari knows MORE about racing than you'll ever do.

Gt_R · 6 Mar 2002, 08:56 (Ref:229076)

Firstly, Ferrari said Rubens is Michael's "best" teammate in the sense that Rubens is closest in performance compared to other Michael's team mate, they did not say both are equal.

Next, Ferrari provides both drivers with equal equipment, that both drivers and teams agreed upon. What is undeniable is that Michael tends to get slightly more attention than Rubens...Sure...blame them for it...But ask yourself honestly, Mclaren and Williams do not have such preferential treatment?

Screw the people who criticise about Ferrari's team orders and when they are used...because while those critics sound so honest and upright, one very important fact is they see the need to put down Ferrari/Michael's achievements for what ever motive. Why do i say that? Because while some really believes it their opinion, their abilities to only fault Ferrari and excuse other teams is just amusing...

calais · 6 Mar 2002, 08:59 (Ref:229079)

how could you have the audacity to say that ferrari treats their driver's equally????schui held ferrari hostage in 95 when they were negotiating contracts and forced them to allow all these provisions regarding his superiority in the team,and they were stupid enough to agree to it.there is a huge difference to on track team orders compared to having it written into your contract.very unsporting and very ferrari!!!!!!!!!

Glen · 6 Mar 2002, 09:42 (Ref:229091)

They were wise enough to agree to it, don't you mean? What kind of idiots would Ferrari be to let the clear best driver of the generation slip through the net?

It sees to me that much of the dislike for team orders comes from those who want it to be an individual sport. Well, its not an individual sport.

Gt_R · 6 Mar 2002, 09:45 (Ref:229095)

Stupid enough? When he is heavily (not solely,but) involved in the restructuring of the almost broken Ferrari...bring it back to its winning ways...and ended their WDC drought... u call it stupid? Williams must be stupid too...because he so much admired and wanted Michael to be in his team too.

calais · 6 Mar 2002, 09:51 (Ref:229102)

yes, but the reason he did'nt go to williams or mclaren is because they would'nt offer him his cherished no.1 status, plus his urealistic pay demands. as for him restructuring ferrari,,,well you really are dreaming. for that you should thank the little toad but more importantly..............the FIA.

f1manoz · 6 Mar 2002, 09:58 (Ref:229109)

I've seen very few drivers like TGF be able to structure a whole team around them and be so dominant for so long, and he's getting paid for it very well too. But remember: Ferrari is Ferrari, they have the money.

Very few drivers have been able to get a team around them so well. Other have managed it, but only for a year or two. One year examples I can think of with undisputed number one status who had genius cars and made the most of it are Andretti in 1978 and Scheckter in 1979. Jim Clark was rarely challenged in all his career at Lotus, as was Ayrton Senna at McLaren. Jackie Stewart at Tyrrell had god-like status (although Jackie IS a god!)

Team orders, high pay demands, brilliant machinery and technical support are nothing new to F1. It's just that in this communication era, we hear about it more often.

Oh, and BTW, the reason Williams can't take TGF is that they basically cannot afford him. Sir Frank looks after the employees first.

PS - I am NOT a TGF fan.

calais · 6 Mar 2002, 10:09 (Ref:229119)

you sure sound like one!

Glen · 6 Mar 2002, 10:23 (Ref:229129)

You don't have to be a fan to see the cold facts - MS is without doubt the dominant driver of his generation. He has achieved that for longer than almost anyone - and shows no signs of slowing down (indeed, all the changes in him are for the better - more consistent, less unforced errors, more composure).

I certainly don't worship him - I'd like to see someone good enough to challenge him - it's just that I am not so naieve as to think that a simple feat.

Rambo · 7 Mar 2002, 15:26 (Ref:230012)

I think you'll find that Ron Dennis and Frank Williams at McLaren and Williams invented team orders; you should also look at the clauses Senna demanded in his contract at Lotus and mcLaren.

BBKing · 7 Mar 2002, 15:35 (Ref:230014)

Barrichello is indeed the closest team mate that Schumacher ever had. That says it all. Ferrari hires only 3rd class drivers slow enough to be Schumacher's slaves.

Now you will say that Barrichello was impresive in 99 yet his contract was renewed in 2001 after confirming what many of us predicted that he would be a total failure in Ferrari.

Guess who was in the free market in 2001? Fisichella. Too fast to be Schumacher's slave.

Think about Schumacher having exclusive right to the spare car. How equal treatment is that? more often than not the spare car is a better evolution of the car that is given to the slave.

Glen · 7 Mar 2002, 16:03 (Ref:230023)

Oh yea -great idea: Spend millions on the best driver in the world, and then deny him the spare car.

Why are you so obsessed by team orders? No team owner in his right mind is going to compromise the fight for both championships just so a few fans who are only interested in individual drivers, rather than team effort, are satisfied that Driver A gets a fair fight with Driver B.

BBKing · 7 Mar 2002, 16:58 (Ref:230043)

Technically it cost Ferrari nothing to have Schumacher. Shells and Marlboro pay his salary. YOu would thing that if Ferrari was true to their claim they give the same treatment to Barrichello then they could easily afford an extra spare car for him?

I am against team orders in the way Ferrari uses them. Hope you understand that one thing is team orders and something completely different is what Ferrari does. Slavery sounds a better word.

dman007 · 7 Mar 2002, 17:35 (Ref:230071)

I am constantly befuddled about all the talk about Michael and whomever the other driver for Ferrari is. Based on what I have seen, Michael Schumacher is the greatest driver to ever grace the seat of an F1 car. F1 is big business and winning is everything. It is not only Michael's driving abilities, it is his uncanny ability to tweak the car to make it faster. For example, when he was out with his broken leg a couple years ago, Eddie Irvine slipped further and further back in the starting grid each race. Did the rest of the field get faster, no it was Eddie's inability to get the car dialed in without Michael's input. Now Eddie is the #1 guy with a losing team, some choice. Until somebody comes along that is able to not only drive faster, and has the ability to make the team faster, Michael is the man. Just my observation and opinion.

**Bononi** · 7 Mar 2002, 17:55 (Ref:230087)

Welcome DMan007 !

TGF is the best/greatest driver of his generation. And to be like this, it is not just the talent of racing, but a group of qualities and "others talents". That is TGF, the same as Senna was, Prost and many others.

If there's a thing that no one can take back from TGF, is his partnership with Ferrari. Definetely, he built the team and brought them back to the top. And the more RB or any driver who would be his teammate, could claim, none of them will be like TGF inside Ferrari.

When I used to think about Senna, I couldn't separate McLaren from him.
The same goes for TGF...

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