Chevron B19

[allenbrown]

There is a website I vaguely recall that does sell replica stickers. Try http://www.oldracingcars.com/services/stickers/

[RaceDeck19]

At just over 6"4" and 225 lbs I can not get myself properly fitted in my pride and joy and I refuse to modify the chassis or tub on this beautiful machine to do so. So it's off to Ebay...
Ebaymotors.com Item Number 230247814192 ( should be up within a few hours. ) is Currently in the US, but have the ability to pack for worldwide shipment

my email racedeck@gmail.com

[John Turner]

Sorry that you have to sell this lovely car, Jorgen, but the only way I can leave this advertisement in is by moving it to the Chassis History archive, where the info. has some relevance.

[RaceDeck19]

No problem John, thanks for doing that. I am really unhappy to sell, I tried everything I could with the pedals and the bead seat with no avail ( I also have a gorilla size foot - 12 us You would think they built these cars for little guys or something, I should have been a football player

[p261brm]

I have no note of either Watson or Fittipaldi ever driving either a Chevron B19 or a DART entry[quote allenbrown]
You are probably correct. Memory might be adrift as usual, but had Dart not disappeared from the scene by this time? The team had folded and in August/September 71? Dave Wilson went back to the works, in that I am sure.

[driftwood]

I RECALL SEEING DART CARS FOR SALE IN AS CANT RECALL IF IT WAS 71 72 OR 73 AS ADVERT
i guess its time to flick thru the mags again

[Dan Rear]

Didn't DART link up with GRD from late 72 thru' 73?

[slowwe]

Originally Posted by driftwood

Colin Bennet is now back in the UK after Amalfi racing was closed down
he was always base din the north of england near Oulton park when he ran his race shop
the 0565 std code is now 01565 these towns are the north of england in oulton park area Chevron cars in Bolton is a bit further north
Arley (Northwich) 01565
Bucklow Hill 01565
Knutsford 01565
Lower Peover 01565
Mobberley 01565
Pickmere 01565

If you had faxes from Andreason Chevron the code would be 0962 Winchester
this is near Southampton on the south coast of england

Hi guys - all help gratefully received. Just purchased completely dismantled B19 project believed to be chassis 10 - I( know there are several of these extant). The body work has Amalfi Racing stickers all over it. Any help in identifying this chassis would be great. The rumour is that it is one of the two Wocestershire Racing cars - which seems feasible if hard to prove. It has an odd chassis configuration with a kinked cross member bearing the sterring rack anyone know if this might help to identify the chassis?

[driftwood]

I looked at the project last year, did my research, and walked away from it as it is not a car that you can fit an ID to. It is all the old parts from the original car that was completely restored with new parts 20 years ago. The car's identity is now on new running gear in USA with papers. Yes, I can argue that it is the original Chevron chassis etc, etc, but the continuation car is up and running and is for sale.

Let's say an original car is racing today and is shunted: body chassis is beyond economical repair and you order new parts to rebuild car, fit the chassis plate and turn up to race. Then someone buys the pile of broken parts from you and spends 18 months fixing the bent chassis WITH Chevron stamp on it, buys all the other parts - engine, gearbox, uprights and then rolls it down the pitlane with the chassis plate on it as per your rebuilt car. Who has the real car??-you or him?

You do, because it is the original car with some of the parts rebuilt and you had proof of ownership before it was crashed and rebuilt. The other car has no ID and is just a "copy" and that is exactly the position you're in now!!!

You may as well have gone to Vin and ordered a new "continuation" car and had a plate added with the next sequance of numbers in the build programme.

As a note:
a) some of the B19`s in the number count of cars built are B16`s modified or upgraded
b) some of the B21 cars in the number count are B19`s upgraded
c) some of the B23 cars in the number count are B19 cum 21 cars upgraded and it seems most were never plated up as the newer model and Chevron do not appear to have built as many cars as they say they did.

Sadly, there are more Chevron B19-23 cars around today than were built in period. I can point out 2, poss 3, in the pitlane at races that have no traceable history from 71-87 and 1 or 2 cars totally destroyed/written off, yet are now miraculously alive and racing.

Well known saying " Buyer beware". If you want the genuine article, do the research. If you're not that fussy, good luck

[Delbert]

Originally Posted by RaceDeck19

In the papers I have there are letters from Swart talking about racing this car. I know it was a Cannon car, as you said I am not sure if there was just one or two? I am trying to get colors photos as I would like to bring it back to its original livery.
Thanks

You have probably already sort ted this but I have seen some old autosports November 1971 with a Canon car on the front cover i think it is South Africa. You can search of ebay to see if it still for sale.

[Delbert]

I am surprised that no one has mentioned the new Chevronheritage.com website.
This has been created by a couple of owners to try to create a central resource for Chevron cars with a view to keeping an eye on the plate numbers. Equally surprising is the fact that so few people have registered their cars. It is a good site built by Gerald Swan (Lola heritage fame).
It would be a great resource if only people would populate it with their cars and they only charge £25!

[driftwood]

why pay for a site when 10 10 TNF is free for info
1 reason why cars are not posted is half are not real cars with period history and continuous unadulterated line of ownership

[Delbert]

Driftwood, all the more reason for those of us with cars that we consider are the "real" thing to post their history. The more cars that are publicly identified should reduce the "new fiddlers" from entering the fray.
My comments in no way reduce the great value and resource that 10 10 offers.
Thanks

[allenbrown]

My concern with the Lola and Chevron heritage sites - and I have expressed this to Gerald - is that they take an owner's claim and publish it without checking and even without comment. That gives the impression the claim has Chevron's or Lola's backing and I believe this is going to cause all sorts of problems in the future.

But I do like the idea of charging for for this - I might have to consider that

Allen

[Simon Hadfield]

I agree completely with Allen's comments above. It is the "golden glow" provided by these sites, unchecked, unsupported and unquestioned that I feel achieves the exact opposite of their stated aims....

[Delbert]

Allen
When you do decide to make an ascent on the B19 mountain please let me know I would be happy to help with documentation.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Delbert

Allen
When you do decide to make an ascent on the B19 mountain please let me know I would be happy to help with documentation.

you may also want to assist him with an oxygen bottke, given the height of that mountain

[driftwood]

some of the B19 cars built where B16 cars converted up
then chevron built some b19 cars later some of these get made into b21 later b23
if u add up the number of B19 21 23 cars built take the total and divide by 2 you will have a figure closer to the real number of cars that existed in 71-73

I am not going to quote a chassis number here and say its a total fake but Mr W you park next to 1 each month please ask for a list of every owner and you will find a HUGE hole!
your cars are not in doubt as we can trace them over the years- i have a foto of yr 19 parked in 1982-3 in thundersports or hscc paddock
the trail goes backwards easily to 71/2 and can roll forward thru the 80-90`s the 00`s to usa and back
how many others can do this? you will be surprised at how many
so why should yr car and a new car sit side by side with same price tag on the windscreen or even be allowed to race in a period livery it clearly never wore!new cars should not be allowed to do this but sadly basement max screwed us all over with HTP

[slowwe]

Originally Posted by RaceDeck19

I am still waiting to hear from Ed Swart ( his HSR West site is down?). But I did go through the stack of papers and there is a letter from Ed about this car ( B19-10a) and in it he states;

" The B19-10A was my first car that was first in the Cannon colors and for the S.African Springbok series it was the same car but painted yellow/purple for the Wynn's sponsorhip. After the Springbok races, it was shipped back to Holland and I sold it to a guy in England" Ed Swart- March 6 , 2006

I also found a few names of previous owners
Ed Swart
Jeff Mckay (most recent)
Richard Leppla
Amaliftano

Regarding this car does anyone know where I can see a picture of the Wynn's colour scheme. We have started taking the bodywork of my B19 back to gel coat and have discovered a mix of purple and yellow - we plan to sand it back to roughly the colour coat above the gel to see how it was originally painted.

If as we think this is chassis 10 ( and it is without doubt an original chassis) then as far as I can see its provenance prior to the time that someone bought a new chassis (if indeed this is what happened to chassis 10) remains it own - despite what the ever acid and frequently extremely impolite Mr Driftwood has to say.

If we can find a pic of the Wynns colour sceme we know where on the body work to look for the colour changes which will help enormously.

Richard

[henk4]

Originally Posted by slowwe

If as we think this is chassis 10 ( and it is without doubt an original chassis)

Is this the ex Alan Timpany car (chassis plate 70-8-10?)

[driftwood]

no it is the original and discarded B19 car 10 essentially all the old parts taken off the car and the plate was passed across to the new chassis body combo and now in usa and is in essence car B19-71-10
It sat for nigh on 18 years in pieces in Florida in the garage of Amalfatino while he used the rebuilt car prior to selling the car to racedeck19 and then the car was resold to Jeff another poster here who is now selling the car

Richard the facts are there and are not acid and impolite!!

If i have a bar of silver and paint it gold what is it?
dont try to kid people that you have b19# 10
If you want to re assemble the car do so but have the decency to fit a plate that states what it is & not the real car and worse case scenario call it a high number out of sequence or best fit B19-71-10 R to set it apart from the real car that has continued to run for years

[Dr. Alexander Lienau]

I am since more then 10 years to proud owner of the B19 Chassis No. 10.

After more than three years rearchwork I have assembled the complete documentation of not only all owners from day one but in addition every race and race result of my car. The B19 chassis no. 10 has had only six german and swiss owners.

The history of my car is approved by the FIA Heritage Certificate, which was granted to me last year.

I hope everybody with a Chevron B19 will join the orwell supersports cup 2009, but if any other Chevron B19 carries the Number 10 I recommed a addition of something saying that this is not the orginal car, for example addition "c" for continuation or "r" for replik or 10-2 etc.

Alexander

[chrisks]

Think you mean buy one from CHEVRON CARS and get
true continuation from the owners of the Chevron intellectual property and the only source of authentic chassis numbers!!
The number would be 19-08-10 not trying to be 1971.

[Delbert]

Originally Posted by Dr. Alexander Lienau

I hope everybody with a Chevron B19 will join the orwell supersports cup 2009, but if any other Chevron B19 carries the Number 10 I recommed a addition of something saying that this is not the orginal car, for example addition "c" for continuation or "r" for replik or 10-2 etc.
Alexander

I agree with Alexander. Those of us with the confidence to put our cars up for debate through the Heritage web site,or here at 10/10ths, probably means that we have some confidence that they are what they purport to be.

The other point about grid sizes for 2009 will rage long into the night but it would be great to get more of these wonderful cars on to the grids next year - especially if they are reflective of period and of the correct weight!

[John Turner]

Everyone knows my opinion on originality by now but I don't want people like Richard alienated from here because it is much better to have these discussions kept in the public eye and maybe reach some sensible solution. Ideally, any original chassis discarded should have been completely cut up and destroyed, but as we know this hasn't always happened and they have emerged years later rebuilt.

Alexander's car has the continuous history that gives it the provenance, but it is surely a fact that its chassis hasn't done the early races contained within that provenance/history. So whilst recognising the status of Alexander's car, can we not suggest that Richard's chassis (provided it is the original as claimed, is identifiably so, and complete), rather than carrying a 'C' or 'R' suffix, neither of which in this case is entirely accurate, carries 'OCRB' for Original Chassis/Replica Body, or, at least something that identifies it as such. Record it on the register, to ensure that any future owner/buyer knows what he is getting. Much better to keep this all recorded and out in the open.

May I gently steer this back to the thread topic - B19 chassis histories! Where are we with this then?