Historic Racers In Europe - Carnet Requirements?

[andy97]

Not something that tends to affect me as I have only raced at Spa once, although I was hoping to do so again at some point in the future. Does seem to state more expense and paper work for those wanting to race in Europe:

https://www.motorsportuk.org/movemen...csSm04FaK_baag

[Bob Pomeroy]

Will a carnet really be needed if the race car in the trailer is actually road registered, taxed and insured?

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Bob Pomeroy

Will a carnet really be needed if the race car in the trailer is actually road registered, taxed and insured?

There is a lot of chat about this on various race/ rally related forums and fb sites in the last few hours and the consensus of opinion so far seems to be, yes. Although CSCC have suggested that they are trying to work on a compromise with their Belgian colleagues for cars with a V5, but no guarantees. Seems to me, however, that “compromises” will need to be worked out at MUK-Govt level rather than individual car club level.

[eamonn ledwidge]

Originally Posted by andy97

There is a lot of chat about this on various race/ rally related forums and fb sites in the last few hours and the consensus of opinion so far seems to be, yes. Although CSCC have suggested that they are trying to work on a compromise with their Belgian colleagues for cars with a V5, but no guarantees. Seems to me, however, that “compromises” will need to be worked out at MUK-Govt level rather than individual car club level.

Very difficult to see how that could work. If racing at Spa, the points of entry to EU will be in France at Calais or Dunkirk.

I understand that trailers may need ID documents and insurance also.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by eamonn ledwidge

Very difficult to see how that could work. If racing at Spa, the points of entry to EU will be in France at Calais or Dunkirk.

I understand that trailers may need ID documents and insurance also.

Agreed.

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by Bob Pomeroy

Will a carnet really be needed if the race car in the trailer is actually road registered, taxed and insured?

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...nd-cpd-carnets
This one seems to say that carnets will not be needed for registered cars through most of Europe .

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Tel 911S

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...nd-cpd-carnets
This one seems to say that carnets will not be needed for registered cars through most of Europe .

What if they are on a trailer? Many race cars are no longer registered.

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by andy97

What if they are on a trailer? Many race cars are no longer registered.

If a car has ever been registered , that means that tax has been paid on it at some time , therefore it does not class as goods for customs purposes .
That was how it was explained to me many years ago by C&E when I was doing events over Europe using Carnets .
AS far as I can make out , that still applies & even if it is on a trailer , does not need a Carnet .
And the Trailer does not need to be registered if it is private use .

[eamonn ledwidge]

Originally Posted by Tel 911S

If a car has ever been registered , that means that tax has been paid on it at some time , therefore it does not class as goods for customs purposes .
That was how it was explained to me many years ago by C&E when I was doing events over Europe using Carnets .
AS far as I can make out , that still applies & even if it is on a trailer , does not need a Carnet .
And the Trailer does not need to be registered if it is private use .

Interesting, my main race car is Republic of Ireland road registered with duties paid, but UK located. That might solve part of the problem, however I discovered this little gem:

"The Port of Dover and Eurotunnel cannot process ATA Carnets, so find out where to go when moving goods with an ATA Carnet". ATA Carnets will usually be processed at the port. However, from 1 January 2021, if you’re moving goods with an ATA Carnet through the Port of Dover or Eurotunnel, you will need to go to a government inland border facility to process your ATA Carnet. from gov.uk https://www.gov.uk/guidance/moving-g...-an-ata-carnet

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by eamonn ledwidge

Interesting, my main race car is Republic of Ireland road registered with duties paid, but UK located. That might solve part of the problem, however I discovered this little gem:

"The Port of Dover and Eurotunnel cannot process ATA Carnets, so find out where to go when moving goods with an ATA Carnet". ATA Carnets will usually be processed at the port. However, from 1 January 2021, if you’re moving goods with an ATA Carnet through the Port of Dover or Eurotunnel, you will need to go to a government inland border facility to process your ATA Carnet. from gov.uk https://www.gov.uk/guidance/moving-g...-an-ata-carnet

As I understand it , an ATA carnet will still be needed for any spares etc carried . But the car will only need a CPD carnet for certain countries , mostly outside Europe .
So it looks like you might have to have an ATA & get it signed out at Ashford , [ or one of the other places shown on your link] .

[Alfaholic]

The view of someone who has seen & stamped many a carnet over the years.

I'm sure we've been over this before, but in general the CPD carnet is intended for use by people travelling with their own personal (road) vehicle for pleasure. The ATA carnet is for goods being used for exhibition, show, testing, etc.

As such, any race car either on a trailer or being driven to be used at a race meeting would be considered as being shown or exhibited and should be covered by an ATA carnet.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Alfaholic

The view of someone who has seen & stamped many a carnet over the years.

I'm sure we've been over this before, but in general the CPD carnet is intended for use by people travelling with their own personal (road) vehicle for pleasure. The ATA carnet is for goods being used for exhibition, show, testing, etc.

As such, any race car either on a trailer or being driven to be used at a race meeting would be considered as being shown or exhibited and should be covered by an ATA carnet.

Yep - back in the day, we used to list our tractor units and race transporter trailers on an ATA carnet as well, covered off some different views at different borders so a safer bet all round.

[midgetman]

This is starting to sound like a right nightmare. I've an allergy to paperwork, is it as onerous as it sounds? Plus the nominal fee sounds somewhat more than nominal.

I've also been reading the reports about a trucker's picnic being confiscated at the Dutch border How would I manage without my tinnies of old and filthy, I couldn't possibly drink Eurofizz stuff.

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

[eamonn ledwidge]

Originally Posted by Tel 911S

As I understand it , an ATA carnet will still be needed for any spares etc carried . But the car will only need a CPD carnet for certain countries , mostly outside Europe .
So it looks like you might have to have an ATA & get it signed out at Ashford , [ or one of the other places shown on your link] .

Many thanks for your most helpful input on this.

Seems I'll be reviving old skills from my first job in shipping in 1960's and looking for a change of ASN. Small price to pay for 'taking back control'.

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by midgetman

This is starting to sound like a right nightmare. I've an allergy to paperwork, is it as onerous as it sounds? Plus the nominal fee sounds somewhat more than nominal.

Right, I understand your point of view. Seems that should you cross the border its either you declare to be a tourist travelling for leasure only or a pro, the last involving a carnet. Hope this will be amended for Motorsport at least.
But prepare yourself to an increase in costs and time spent.