Vettel (DEU) vs Webber (AUS) part 3

[JohnSSC]

I don't think Seb will "wipe the floor" with Webber, but I do think that by the end of this season it will be clear that Seb is the faster driver and will have become much more consistent in scoring points.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

I don't think Seb will "wipe the floor" with Webber, but I do think that by the end of this season it will be clear that Seb is the faster driver and will have become much more consistent in scoring points.

That's already clear after the past two seasons, I'd say.

[strider]

Vettel's generally been faster, not by much but by enough. He hasn't always been more consistent in scoring points, but on at least two occasions that was for reasons beyond his control. I do think he'll be stronger this year.

[Mr V]

I think that if Red Bull are the car to beat again this year, and Seb has the same reliability that Mark had in 2010, Seb will win the title with 3 rounds to go.

[JohnSSC]

I am sure you are correct, Super Hans. I reckon my point is that as Seb gains experience his racecraft will improve and that will allow him to "use" his advantage in pace more advantageously.

I think having Webber on the team has been good for Seb as he has really pushed him, which undoubtedly has made Seb better.

[OZ_HCR32]

Well good to see RBR doing well in testing...better then McLaren and Mercedes anyway who are looking fragile.

Just one small point. I recall Webber had a day of testing earlier, but seems to be Vettel getting all the testing. So not trying to make nothing into something....but where Horner has said in the past the car will be built around Vettel...will be interesting to see how much testing Webber will get.

[Knowlesy]

Yeah it does seem Webber isn't getting much of a go.

Perhaps all his whining and moaning in 2010 is costing him a little.

[newlaprecord]

Originally Posted by OZ_HCR32

Just one small point. I recall Webber had a day of testing earlier, but seems to be Vettel getting all the testing.

Wrong. In 2011 Webber got more testing so far.

Webber: 1398km
Vettel: 1377km

(That's not including the last two days with Vettel onboard, but Webber drives today and tomorrow, so you you can re-calculate these numbers on Monday evening and chances are Webber will be still ahead as Vettel wasted quite some time on Friday)

[Mr V]

Mark managed 139 laps today, not bad for someone who is getting no testing

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by newlaprecord

Wrong. In 2011 Webber got more testing so far.

Webber: 1398km
Vettel: 1377km

Interesting! It honestly feels like Mark has sat out pre-season.

[cmotd]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Yeah it does seem Webber isn't getting much of a go.

Perhaps all his whining and moaning in 2010 is costing him a little.

Whining and moaning is a bit strong, sticking up for himself is the way I'd put it :P

[E.B]

He whines like a f***** Diff. Last year more than most years. He is always bleating about something and was the catalyst to creating much of the team unrest (along with Marko I will agree)
With all respects he is hardly the most team orientated driver on the grid.

[Mr V]

Is he related to Casey Stoner? They both seem to whine in the same way. Ricky Ponting too

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Is he related to Casey Stoner? They both seem to whine in the same way. Ricky Ponting too

Stoner gets the job done!

Rossi seems to be making the excuses.

When Rossi criticised Stoner for not being fast enough on the Duke,
Stoner simply said, "When he [Rossi] rides the Ducati, we'll talk."

[newlaprecord]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Mark managed 139 laps today, not bad for someone who is getting no testing

Indeed. This is how it looks after what could have potentially been the last pre-season test:

Webber: 2362km
Vettel: 2033km

Over a GP worth of extra milage for Webber, quite a shameless case of favourism if you ask me

[Super Hans]

They just sent Vettel out in Webber's helmet for half the time.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

They just sent Vettel out in Webber's helmet for half the time.

Mark's helmet would be way too big for Seb..... probably akin to Webber wearing Sebs boots. Way too big for Mark to fill!

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Is he related to Casey Stoner? They both seem to whine in the same way. Ricky Ponting too

ALL AUSTRALIANS ARE RELATED!!1!!11!1!!

[Mr V]

Red Bull better get Seb back in the car double quick, Mark can't seem to get anywhere near the fastest times

[amon mars]

Comparison of current F1 team mates is often said to be easier than comparison of drivers over a period of decades. But is it? Clearly, the answer must be a big NO within the very competitive world of Formula One. By what measure can Sebastian Vettel and Mark Webber be compared? Do we consider the entry age of the participant as the criteria? If so, well Seb wins hands down. Or do we consider the qualifying position achieved for their first GP? Well, Seb wins again with his 7th on the grid to Marks 18th. Or do we rely on the finishing position at their respective first GPs? If so, Mark’s incredible 5th place finish at the 2002 Melbourne beats Seb’s 8th at the 2007 US GP. The question could be asked: which driver is best at knocking his team mate off the track at break neck speed? And clearly, Seb wins this one hands down.

So where does this leave Mark? Well, celebrating ten years in F1 is always a show of strength of mettle and fortitude. Remember the man Frank Williams called a “Journeyman” won the World Championship in his twelfth year of trying. Sure: Nigel Mansell should have won the crown it five and six years before but his problem was a Mister Piquet and a Professor Prost who incidentally held six titles between them.

In the case of Mark Webber, in his eighth year of racing in the premium class of Grand Prix Competition he finished with a credible 4th in the title chase. In his ninth year he finished strongly, but was unlucky to only achieve a third place podium finish. Remember Korea. Just one soaking line on the ground came between him and the two small steps to the top of the diaz.

Year ten is a forecast, and what a mighty challenge that will be. Will Seb continue in his own inimitable way: taking drivers out who are in front of him? Will Mark drive on a wet line on the ground and put himself out of the title chase? Who knows, but one way or the other Mark is quite capable of finishing second in the championship in his ten year at the top. How good would that be: 2nd in 2011 and 1st in 2012. If that was the result his 11th year he will even have bettered Nigel’s achievement.

Or should we accept the impossibility in comparing Grand Prix drivers be they team mates or not? Nigel was an extraordinary Champion of the people and still remains the only Champion to win back to back FI and CART Indy World Series titles. Sebastian is an extraordinary Champion who has the potential to challenge the best of the best and achieve results previously thought unachievable. Mark’s runs on the board are incomplete as yet. As a winner of the Brazilian, Spanish, Monaco, British and Hungarian Grand Prixs Mark has met the first performance criteria: know how to win!

If you ask a previous champion from 1980 Alan Jones he’ll tell you the order on the scoresheet at the end of 2011 will read: Webber, Vettel and Alonso. Does Mark’s boss Christian Horner think Mark can step to the top of the World Champion diaz at the end of 2011? He says “Mark isn’t approaching this year like this it is final year”. And then he goes on to say Webber is “leaner, lighter and extremely motivated” ahead of the new season. Let the games begin boys: “bring it on” I say.

[garcon]

Welcome amon mars.

If that post is all your own work I congratulate you on a great piece of insight. I'd be tempted to ask who you write for...?

If you've lifted it - or part of it - from somewhere, please acknowledge the source.

Thanks!


My own view on Webber vs Vettel is that it'll finish the same way round as last year, which I suspect we may look back on as being Webber's best chance. Credit to him if he proves me wrong though!

[amon mars]

Glad you liked it! It's all my own work. After years of simply observing F1, I guess I'm guilty of forming an opinion: which could be right (or it could be wrong)! Thanks for the kind words, most appreciated.

[garcon]

Sharing different opinions is what we're all about.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by amon mars

If you ask a previous champion from 1980 Alan Jones he’ll tell you the order on the scoresheet at the end of 2011 will read: Webber, Vettel and Alonso.

Ask someone from Austria and they'll say the scoresheet will say Vettel, Webber/Alonso or Alonso/Webber, someone from from Spain will say Alonso, Vettel/Webber etc etc.

I'm sure that Alan Jones has no more clue as to who will win than the rest of us, but i'm sure he's hoping, like the rest of us with our fav's.

Incidently, comparisons are almost impossible, but the only comparison that can be done is of Seb and Marks 2 season's together and that comparison has showed, that despite Seb's relative lack of experience in comparison to Mark, he has come out on top twice, has more wins, more pole positions and a WDC, simple as that.

With regards to Mansell. As you rightly pointed out, he didn't win the title till his 12th season, but had it not have been for a blown tyre (1986) broken back (1987) and terrible reliability (1991) he may well have been 2 or 3 times WDC before his 12th season.

But anyway, welcome to the forum, have a great time posting, the Vettel/Wedder threads are always the most fun and as you say about the new season - Bring it on

[garcon]

Not sure all the experts will go for a permutation of Webber/Vettel/Alonso. Webber's not in my top five!