How good is Button

[cds_uk]

Ok you lot, bit of a touchy subject this one but here goes, i will be the first to admit that JB did far better against JV than i thought he would but lets dig a bit deeper. It was obvious as soon as Dave Richards arrived at BAR that Jenson was going to be the blue eyed poster boy, the team was going to be centered around him and Jacques was most probably on his way out, that in my opinion is fair enough, every driver dreams of being in that position, thats just F1. But is he really as good as some people are saying he is, in four seasons of F1, every season in not bad cars he has yet to make a podium, ok he has been a bit unlucky but more to the point in the four years he has been here, in my opinion he has been passed by Kimi, Montoya, Alonso, Webber, arguably even DaMatta, he looked every bit as comfortable leading a GP as Jenson. As far as i am concerned JB will maybe win a couple of GP`s in his career but will amount to no more than a HHF or DC, a good solid number two but no more.

[Super Tourer]

Depends what career breaks he gets really. If he's destined to spend the rest of his career at BAR level teams, then the odd podium or snatched win in freak circs are all a team at that level could achieve - almost regardless of the driver.

Jenson had an OK first year, then got into Renault in their new order of things and didn't find the car to his liking, but seemed to get more on top of it in the 2nd half of last year.

BAR gives him a low key place to re-build his confidence, which he has done this year.

He was on the Button (no pun) the minute he first tested the William's, and as a rookie, if you can convince Sir FW to sit behind the wheel of his expensive machinery, you must have that something and I wouldn't be surprised to see JB back in some BMW Compaq overalls before too long....

[cds_uk]

Fair point Super Tourer but Sir Frank soon got shot of him to get JPM, why Button and not Ralf?

[Peter Mallett]

He's good. He was also a stop gap between the disaster of Zanardi and the arrival of the New Order. Can't keep digging at Ralf. It was Button that showed Ralf how to keep the game up for longer than the forst two months of a season.

Its fair to say that he didn't do too well against Fisi at Renault but then Machiavelli was running things. Even so when he was due to leave and it was public knowledge that Renault were concentrating on Trulli, it was Button who was pushing for results.

I think his drawback is that he's too "nice". Shows a lot of respect to others.

He could be the way forward for BAR. This is the first year whe they have a steady management team and a plan. And they have spare dosh because they aren't paying an inflated salary.

[Super Tourer]

I think at that time JPM was still under contract to FW and loaned to Ganassi, and therefore 'due' to come back. Ralf was there due as an obvious national/marketing link for BMW.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by cds_uk
Fair point Super Tourer but Sir Frank soon got shot of him to get JPM, why Button and not Ralf?

Jenson was always a stop gap whilst Williams were waiting for Montoya, that doesn't mean of course, that Williams won't have him back. As for your question, why not Rafe? The length of conract remaining and the cost, plus BMW proberbly want a German driver as opposed to an English. Montoya were Williams choice, Rafe BMW's.

In Jenson's time in F1, he had a good car in his rookie year and out-qualified Rafe at circuits including Spa and Suzuka, circuits known as real racers circuits.

In his second year, the Benetton was a dog, and the far more experienced Fisichella didn't have a much better season, dispite an excellent podium in Spa.

Third season, Jenson got the better of Trulli, a guy quite highly rated in F1 and would have had a podium if not for mechanical difficulties.

Fourth season, Jenson beat Jacques and lead a couple of races, looking very comfortable each time.Mechanical reliability, again, denied him a spot on the podium at Indy and he was never going to beat the top teams on a 3 stopper, when he was on a 2 stopper in a slower car at Japan.

All in all, i think Jensons done quite well. Don't forget, Sir Frank thinks alot of him, If he gets the Williams drive again, i think he'll shut a few people up

[BootsOntheSide]

He seems cery good, and his losses of the Williams or Renault drives can't really be against him - in both cases he had beaten a much more experienced team-mate but fel out due to internal politics. And there's no shame in beign replaced by Montoya or Alonso - both potential champions.

Jenson's position at BAR-Honda is politically precarious as well. Dave Richards thinks he's great marketing-wise, and so will Lucky Strike - fast, well-known, photogenic, great at PR and with an easily memorable name. However, Honda might end up favouring Sato, who's mroe exciting and will obviously be popular in Japan.

2003 has to stand as his most imrpessive year since his rookie days - he kept his cool amidst the internal feuding and just got on with the job at hand. He was unlucky to be caught out in Brazil and break down at Indy, as those would've been great results on perhaps the only 2 days when Bridgestones were on top. He could've scored at Monaco as well, which would've been a great feat considering the dominance of the big 4.

Will he win races? Almost certainly, even if he stays with BAR,a s they look to be in the ascendancy?

Will he win championships? Maybe not, although a 2005 Williams seat might help, and he could now be much better than Ralf, a McLaren-Montoya-Raikkonen glory era looks more likely once Michael retires.

[high contrast]

Weve done all this on the Sato v Button thread!

Well Button was "Fast tracked" into F1 with the help of the British Media to fill the void created when Hill retired. And Sato is auguable the fastest (Best?) driver the Japanese have produced to date, hes a bit green and always tries to run before he can walk in each class hes raced in.

However Button despite having been 'Picked' by the powers that be is a very worthy subject to have been so favoured. He emerged from a crop of young kart racers who benefitted from the British Motor Sports Associations initiative back in 1987 to issue race licenses to 8 year olds. Button won several junior karting championships in 1991 and 92, he then went into International competition as a junior and emerged as a World karting Championship runner up in 1997 in the prestigious factory class. That launched him into single seaters (Formula Ford) where he won the British Championships and the World Cup at the Formula Ford Festival in 1998...that's where the media picked him up...3rd in his rookie F3 championship season was enough for his persistant management to pester Frank Williams to the point where he gave in.

Really it was too much too soon...as we know he struggled at 'BenneRenno'...'TuffFlav' was always going to push him till he cracked to get his own lad in (FA)

Fortunatly Richards was a fan and caught JB as he fell (pushed) and now JB's confidence is at an all time high in an environment where he is rated.

Like Mansell did, JB needs to be loved!

But whats he like as a driver?...A child star...naturally quick with a smooth flowing style...who given the right environment that doesn't dent his confidence will deliver podiums...possible wins if..the new 060 car and Honda mill are good.

I've criticised JB in the past for lacking 'killer instinct'...given 'top kit'...his new found security he will overcome this flaw with his new found confidence...His 5th season could be the one?.....

[Jordi]

I think he's just not in the Raikkonen-Webber-Alonso breed. Nor I think Takuma is...

[RWC]

Yeah it's a very tricky question,there are allways unknowns when comparing him against team mates.
Ralf was just pathetic at times (the usual go slow situation when he get's his contract signed for next year.....?)
Flabio may have been favouring fisi(? not sure,he does it often) but it's obvious button was having difficulty with the drastically underpowered,bad handling benetton-and fisi is a faster driver anyway.
At bar it looked like they were punishing jaques in little ways.Who knows the truth..it was just to stupid pigheaded people arguing

[jetsetter]

Button is facing a critical year in 2004 as with Sato at BAR i don't think Button will be the teams golden haired boy & if he does happen to get beaten by Sato his stocks will depreciate fairly quickly on the driver market, on the other hand if he happens to beat Sato next year he could well find himself as hot property. Next year could well be the year that makes or breaks Jenson's career.

[Dani Filth]

i rate him on par with Webber .. but can't compare him with the likes of Monty or kimi .. because of the cars they drive ..

[DriverT]

I agree Jetsetter. If he shows well against Sato, the future will be set for his reputation at least. If he is blown away by Sato, then his future won't look great. In that case, it'll be back to making adverts for the BBC.

[darcym]

Jetsetter, see my tedious and long Button V Sato senario on the button V sato thread.

I think next year will make one of their careers and break the others. Either way someone is going to be wortheless at the end of it.

[Glen]

I don't see how that follows, darcym. Jenson will be too much for Sato and out-point him, so what? There's no shame in getting beaten by experience and quality. Only in the unlikely event of Sato seriously beating Button will there be any drama. Very unlikely that is too - I suppose Sato could just shade the battle with a lot of luck, but that's not going to break anyone's career.

[gttouring]

button is probably better than all of us in an F1 car. any questions?

[BootsOntheSide]

That's not really the point though. No one's paying any of us £100,000 per race.

[Dani Filth]

they wouldn;t let us drive those cars .. even if we pay them 100000 $/race ...

[jonathanc]

errrm, some teams would

[F3lollipops]

Question: How good is Button?

Answer: Not as good as he and the 'Brits' think he is...

Before anyone complains, I'm British but have never felt the need to like or dislike anyone on the strength of nationality (theirs or mine)

[TGP]

I think JB has been unluckly in his career so far i.e. leaving teams just as they were in the ascendant.

The real test of his abilities will come this year against Sato.

[neilap]

I think Button is amongst the best. Personally, I feel if he was alongside Alonzo he would have beaten him. The reason I say this is that he would have been better situated in the team. Button was much better than Trulli until they started to give more support to Trulli. Even then Button still came out on top.

[jj2728]

i think 2004 will be the year for jb to prove his mettle....quite frankly, i just don't think he's done all that much so far....sure, he led at indy, but he has yet to score even a podium....if both BAR and HONDA get their acts together and sato gets the bit between his teeth then we'll see how good he is.....

[fastracer]

Yes, Button was so much better than Trulli that he was outqualified 12-5. Though he did outscore him (14-9) most of you seem to forget that the 2002 renault was a terribly unreliable car and both drivers had numerous point scoring opportunities taken away. I don't want to keep pushing the "Trulli has poor luck", but he did have many failures while running in the top six (brazil, spain, france, belgium, japan).

[Glen]

Trulli does indeed have poor luck - in my opinion his reputation for being unable to go the race distance is largely undeserved, and sometimes he can produce laps which are nothing short of the best on the grid.

Jenson Button is improving all the time - I'm a little afraid that the new BAR isn't going to be as good as they want it to be (mainly because the big three plus Renault will just keep on getting better, and also because Toyota will surely come of age any time soon) and this might de-motivate the team... what Jenson needs is a race or two beyond what can be expected on paper - if he can find that knack (study Michael for tips) then he'll have graduated from super quick and smooth and consistent performer to potential champion.