[WEC] Toyota Hypercar Discussion

[S griffin]

I reckon LMH shouldn't have too much of an advantage over LMDH, the power will be the most notable difference though. We'll see what Toyota bring next year

[tomcug]

Originally Posted by canaglia

Such a joke for everyone if they will introduce a fresh brand new car named Lexus GR020

Is there anything in the rules that could possibly prevent them from simply slapping a "GR020" sticker on it without the Lexus thing?

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by tomcug

Is there anything in the rules that could possibly prevent them from simply slapping a "GR020" sticker on it without the Lexus thing?

Nope.

ARTICLE 19: HOMOLOGATION
19.1 Principles
A car Manufacturer may homologate a maximum of two cars during the five championship seasons (from January 2021
until December 2025) and both homologations will be valid until December 2025.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by tomcug

Is there anything in the rules that could possibly prevent them from simply slapping a "GR020" sticker on it without the Lexus thing?

Actual rules, decided by both ACO and manufacturers involved, tell that after homologation, a manufacturer can't update its own LMH for 5 years, there are few joker allowed across the 5 years or in case of updates related to reliability issues like at example toyota that was allowed to make a considerable number of updates for the 2022 car, mainly because they decided to adapt GR010 to narrower front and wider rear tyres size as these tyres size are going to be mandatory in next years.
Now I don't know if in regulamentations is explicitly forbidden for a manufacturer to introduce a new car to replace the old homologated LMH before the end of 5 years homolation; even if, it isn't it would be however a logical no sense since the 5 years homologation and development freeze was made to prevent skyrocket costs rampage.
The only two scenarios I can see to let toyota introduce a new car are:
1) a hard workaround, toyota shifting to lexus as new a different manufacturer.
2) pressures to ACO with toyota asking to introduce a new car justifying the necessity to compete against ferrari and peugeot that had 2 extra years to design and develope their hypercars under finalized rules, unlike toyota that started GR010 development when tech. reg wasn't finalized yet.

Edit. Just seen Mike E post, well then it's everything fine for toyota. Best regards to costs saving.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Mike E

Nope.



ARTICLE 19: HOMOLOGATION

19.1 Principles

A car Manufacturer may homologate a maximum of two cars during the five championship seasons (from January 2021

until December 2025) and both homologations will be valid until December 2025.

Let's hope they let another team run the current cars!

[greenmachinets040]

Originally Posted by S griffin

They managed to win again despite everything, although the weather made the race a bit of a lottery. Next time they might not be so lucky

Please levae your negative comments out of the Toyota fan topic. Thanks.

[Mike E]

Back to the option of homologating a second car in the 5 year homologation period, maybe a lesson has actually been learned from the disaster that has been LMP2 homologation.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by greenmachinets040

Please leave your negative comments out of the Toyota fan topic. Thanks.

Erm, no. This isn't a 'fan topic'. It's a discussion of the Toyota Hypercar. As long as it relates to the subject matter, negative comments are perfectly acceptable and, like positive ones, are open to civilised debate.

[tomcug]

Originally Posted by joeb

Let's hope they let another team run the current cars!

I can't think of any private team that could afford even a single Toyota GR010.

[canaglia]

Economic aspect aside, I don't think toyota will ever give a precious toy with lots of advanced hybrid and engine technologies inside to a third party... a "private" GR010 in my opinion could be possible only for teams heavily tied with toyota like tom's or sard, but to expect a full WEC or LM effort for these japanese teams without being backed by toyota is fan fiction IMHO. Or as an alternative, a IMSA semi-backed program in the hands of TRD USA that already manages nascar programs.

[S griffin]

I can't see Toyota leasing their supplies to other teams, unless they want someone else to run their 'official' car to anyone else. Although I guess a satellite team is possible, but it depends how much funding is left. I think they will stick to LM for now. Although there is an opportunity for IMSA, I'm not sure it will necessarily happen

[TF110]

Wonder what the reasons behind a brand new car would be. I'm going to guess that the main thing is improvements to be had and a new car to challenge the arrival of Ferrari Porsche and Peugeot.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by TF110

Wonder what the reasons behind a brand new car would be.

They need the car to be better! More consistent across all conditions. Also to adapt to the tweak with all wheel drive / hybrid deployment.

I'm going to guess that the main thing is improvements to be had and a new car to challenge the arrival of Ferrari Porsche and Peugeot.

Yes, improvements to be had!

[Mike E]

They also got a lot of criticism for making son-of-TS050 when everyone was hoping for a Valkyrie. The Peugeot shows what is possible under the new regs although the final version might not look quite as good as the show car. The renders from Caddy and BMW look equally dramatic and the Glickenhaus, and even the ByKolles, look better than the Toyota.

Also, it keeps breaking down...

[PhilipR]

I always thought there was something not right with the Toyota ... seemed to struggle a lot and have a lot of issues. They were lucky not to have another manufacturer exposing their issues last 2 years and now will have 2 years advantage on the others by having 2 years of data of what works and what does not work.

As for the 5 year homologation, would ACO say no to any manufacturer that wants to change car after 1 or 2 years? If Peugeot realise they have a bad car and tell ACO we want to make a new car or we leave, would ACO just say "Ok, Bye" ! - I do not think so. So not surprised if Toyota come with a new car no issue

[Mike E]

Manufacturers can homologate two cars in the 5 year period.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Mike E

Manufacturers can homologate two cars in the 5 year period.

You know Mike, I'm sure I've read that before somewhere........

[Mike E]

Seems familiar...

[TF110]

As they would say "Louder for those in the back!"
I equally agree about the looks of the Toyota. I think it's the least pretty of their prototype series of cars.

[tomcug]

Originally Posted by Mike E

Manufacturers can homologate two cars in the 5 year period.

So Toyota + Lexus = up to 4 cars Those rules are there just so the ACO can say "we tried"

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by tomcug

So Toyota + Lexus = up to 4 cars Those rules are there just so the ACO can say "we tried"

Raises an interesting question.

If I remember correctly, under the incoming GT3 rules, cars will only be eligible if the manufacturer has also entered Hypercar. Anyone know if that is still the case?

[S griffin]

I'm not sure Toyota have even thought about that, they don't need any extra help. Really I don't think they are worried about the ACO rules, as long as their car is good enough

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by tomcug

So Toyota + Lexus = up to 4 cars Those rules are there just so the ACO can say "we tried"

yeah at the end nothing actually changed since during "baroque" '10s years audi, toyota and porsche were already introducing fresh new cars each two seasons...
audi: 2014 R18 -> brand new 2016 R18 with batteries
porsche: 2013 first 919 -> 2015 second 919 -> 2017 third 919
toyota: 2012 TS030 -> 2014 TS040 -> 2016 TS050



Don't know how many people will get the reference but..
ACO: "I have a plan"
also ACO: "We can't fight change"

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Mike E

Raises an interesting question.

If I remember correctly, under the incoming GT3 rules, cars will only be eligible if the manufacturer has also entered Hypercar. Anyone know if that is still the case?

Don't think this is the case since at example multimatic is developing ford mustang gt3 and ford isn't involved in LMH/lmdh, same about next corvette c8 gt3.

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by canaglia

Don't think this is the case since at example multimatic is developing ford mustang gt3 and ford isn't involved in LMH/lmdh, same about next corvette c8 gt3.

I meant in WEC. There are plenty of other places to race a Mustang GT3.