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10 Apr 2017, 09:45 (Ref:3725252) | #251 | |||
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Honda were looking at promoting the Tourer, and held discussions with TD over a possible entry. Honda wanted assurances from TD that it could be a race winner, and TD took on the challenge to try and race the marketing tool. They backed this up with results in the season. When the Type-R was available for 2015, the natural progression was made. Far from being ditched as garbage, the Civic Tourer can be viewed upon as a car that delivered 4 race wins, 6 fastest laps, and a 3rd place in the championship. Was it the perfect car to race with - from a results perspective no, but from a marketing perspective then yes. That is precisely why BMR/Subaru need to get the Levorg sorted quickly. The purpose of Subaru's entry is to promote their estate car fitted with a boxer engine, and to demonstrate that it is at least on par with other cars. I hope they get it competitive soon, to keep Subaru happy. When you read Subaru's marketing of the Levorg, you can see why they want the package to stay as close to their ethos as possible, and a move to a different engine would negate that. 'Estate car practicality. All-Wheel Drive confidence. Sports Tourer comfort, handling and sheer driving fun. Effortless on the motorway. Exhilarating on the coast road.' 'The Boxer engine used in the Levorg [...]. There’s less vibration. And power delivery is smoother. As the engine weight can sit lower, the vehicle handles better' |
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10 Apr 2017, 17:22 (Ref:3725345) | #252 | ||
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10 Apr 2017, 21:19 (Ref:3725392) | #253 | |||
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10 Apr 2017, 21:26 (Ref:3725395) | #254 | ||
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Spot on, Matt Neal said this in an interview back in the day. It was a bloody good car too - most teams can only dream of the success the Dynamics boys have.
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11 Apr 2017, 05:38 (Ref:3725428) | #255 | |||
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Got to be better than a driver appearance in a showroom talking about how good the road car compares to their one on the track! |
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11 Apr 2017, 07:21 (Ref:3725434) | #256 | ||
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So much for Subaru's last minute weight penalty. Gow has busted that one.
http://www.btccforum.net/forum/showt...sed-on-Levorgs Quote:
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11 Apr 2017, 07:57 (Ref:3725441) | #257 | ||
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Considering they had all winter and knew about the changes since earlier in the year, I always got the impression that BMR had sat on their laurels a bit as they weren't out testing to the same (publicly aware) degree as the other top runners or even posting any updates on progress. Heck, from those recent pictures Sutton posted on Twitter when he was getting his seat fitted they hadn't even stripped the old livery off the cars (most teams do that pretty early on in the off-season and test in plain colours). It's like they parked the cars up for three months thinking they didnt have much to sort and only dusted them off a couple of weeks before media day. Perhaps they really thought their NGTC unicorn was unstoppable until someone thought "oh **** we haven't added the 2017 changes yet". Kinda ties in with what Cole said that he'd tested the car and it was spot on then a few days before he finds out they've changed it, as if it was just a case of running a different setup compared to the testing sessions and media day surely reverting back to those would get them closer to the pace they'd shown before. Either way with Gow's clarification, there's either more at play behind the scenes or they've dropped the ball. Because if I knew there were big changes coming into play (new tyres, new weight and height setup etc) I'd have been out testing the hell out of the setup like Dynamics, Motorbase and WSR so I could hit the ground running. Considering BMR did the most testing of anyone in 2015 (when Plato and Turkington first joined with the Passats) this year seems really out of character. (I wonder if they've got a much smaller budget this year, Silverline dropping out must be hurting and may also explain why Warren has had to forfeit for another pay driver, perhaps they had no budget to test?!). |
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11 Apr 2017, 09:09 (Ref:3725455) | #258 | ||
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I appreciate the clarification, however its this level of transparency that needs to be disclosed when changes are made to a team.
So the basic story is it looks like it was a team "failure" then of some kind, either not testing the changes at all, or testing with the wrong changes etc. |
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11 Apr 2017, 09:50 (Ref:3725471) | #259 | |||
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It was first seen in 2015, when they had issues between drivers doing what is right for the team, and not helping each other to success: 'BMR boss Warren Scott said the situation was the result of a "miscommunication" from the team. However, Team BMR issued a statement on Wednesday evening confirming Smith did ignore a team order in race one' Then last year they had the very public reprimand from TOCA over their complaints about the homologation of the inlet manifold: Gow - 'for Jason to still complain and infer that they have not been given the “right level of performance” is simply bizarre. It’s actually borderline offensive' BMR - 'we believe these test conditions do not translate to actual ‘on track’ straight line speed performance and recommend revisions moving forward if we are to achieve the common goal of ‘on track’ speed equalisation' TOCA - 'This we find incomprehensible. There has never been a common goal of ‘on track speed equalisation’.' Then the timing of Turkington's departure, and having it revealed by the driver himself first: Turkington (14 Jan 17) - 'My exit from BMR was only yesterday, so I need some time to absorb the news and work out the next path' And now the latest exchange between BMR/Plato and TOCA/Gow: Plato - 'It was a disaster to be honest, a curveball came in in the week before Brands Hatch. There were some adjustments late to the cars and now we’re working out how to try to make them work.' Gow - 'The team have had the CoG calculation since it was done by RML, agreed and issued on January 20th. On the Wednesday before Brands Hatch there was a minor re-calculation of only -2.5kg...and actually that was a re-calculation in favour of the Subaru.' The team seem to have done a tremendous job so far with the car, but I am worried about their media relations. I assume that their backers (Adrian Flux and Subaru) get their media releases from the team, and they must be concerned that they have published releases on their respective websites that appear to be factually inaccurate. BMR are not into the second year of their three-year deal with Subaru, and I wonder how closely Subaru are following proceedings, and must hope that it gets rectified soon. I know it is still early days in this season, but as BMR are approaching the half-way point in their Subaru deal there is likely to be a review of the contract. It would be a massive shame if Subaru were put off from continuing to support the BTCC due to some misplaced media interaction. |
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11 Apr 2017, 09:54 (Ref:3725472) | #260 | |||
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Do the new tyres bring with them a new wheel/brake package? |
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11 Apr 2017, 10:34 (Ref:3725479) | #261 | |
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It's clear that BMR didn't do something right with regards to this season's regulations and have been caught out. And yes, this isn't the first time the team have been contradictory with what they say in the media.
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11 Apr 2017, 11:57 (Ref:3725500) | #262 | ||
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11 Apr 2017, 12:06 (Ref:3725503) | #263 | ||
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If those sort of technical decisions had been published at the time, then we would have avoided weeks of arguing and flack from the fan. |
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11 Apr 2017, 13:00 (Ref:3725515) | #264 | ||
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just listing technical decisions etc still wouldn't have given all the background info and answers to a specific question that Gow gave. |
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11 Apr 2017, 13:04 (Ref:3725517) | #265 | |||
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I understand that a lot of these decisions are made within the BTCC Technical Working Group (TWG), which a lot of the teams are members of. Is it the teams, TOCA, or some other entity that chooses to keep these details private? We only tend to hear about these matters when teams make a complaint about some of the outcomes, and TOCA/Alan Gow have to respond. On the occasions when all the teams are happy with a situation, we don't tend to hear anything and probably have no reason to see the information. I wonder whether it is a case that the drivers are not fully appreciative of what happens within the TWG, and it is their comments that contradict what their engineers already know? The two recent BMR cases seem to come off the back of Plato's comments. There are probably others that have resulted from drivers' expressing frustration in the past. |
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11 Apr 2017, 14:37 (Ref:3725528) | #266 | ||
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To give you an idea of what I am talking about regarding technical info http://www.fia.com/events/world-tour...e-touring-cars Of course the sharp-eyed amongst you may recognise one of the signatures on every document. |
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11 Apr 2017, 15:04 (Ref:3725536) | #267 | ||
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11 Apr 2017, 15:12 (Ref:3725539) | #268 | |||
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If the public knew of these alterations back when they were done (Jan 20th) then people could have gone into the Brands meeting with that information so therefore any performances could be explained "better". |
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11 Apr 2017, 15:36 (Ref:3725544) | #269 | ||
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he didnt "come out and respond after a ****storm has occured". someone just asked the simple question on his forum and he answered like normal. theres nothing else ive read in any magazines about any great issues. even plato didnt make a big issue just tried to deflect attention from their problem. i think we created an issue in our own minds that didnt really exist |
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11 Apr 2017, 16:19 (Ref:3725554) | #270 | |||
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My sons are both interested in cars and motor racing, primarily because of my interest in them. However, neither of them have the first clue about cars, and what makes them tick. As far as they are concerned, to get from point A to point B, they have to push the start button and then plant their boot to the right hand pedal when in the right gear. That is why I had to explain to one of them (they are twins aged 44) the concept of the Subaru engine last weekend whilst we were watching my grandson playing football. Having seen them last year at Oulton Park (we go to one weekend every year), he couldn't understand why they seemed out of place at Brands the other weekend. |
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11 Apr 2017, 17:25 (Ref:3725569) | #271 | |||
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If the public had been paying close attention, then they would have known in November last year that this change would be imposed on the car. 4 Nov 16 - 'At a recent team managers' meeting, representatives of the other outfits on the grid voted in favour of series bosses coming up with a formula to level out the centre of gravity. Team principal Scott said he was disappointed by the decision, but recognised that this had been done at the behest of rival squads.' Then BMR technicians would have received the specific calculations following the Design Group meeting in January. The exact details of which the general public have no need to be aware of unless they are building an NGTC car themselves. They recognised this in their team's statement 'the balance of performance applied to us over the winter break has had a big effect' On the Wednesday, a calculation in favour of Subaru was applied. After this Plato's exact comments are: 'A curveball came in in the week before Brands Hatch. We could not get the cars working properly at all. There were some adjustments late to the cars and now we’re working out how to try to make them work. But the new settings we’ve had to run have thrown a spanner in the works for the time being.' What he doesn't say is where this curveball has come from, and what 'settings' they now have to run. These could be from RML, TOCA, Dunlop, Subaru or even identified within the team as something that needs to be done for safety or reliability purposes. Or, perhaps he wasn't aware of the changes over the winter and was only made aware of them in the week before the event, which means it is a miscommunication within the team? Whichever way, this weekend is definitely shaping up as being one to watch for how all of the Manufacturer entries run. |
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11 Apr 2017, 17:30 (Ref:3725575) | #272 | |||
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11 Apr 2017, 17:37 (Ref:3725579) | #273 | ||
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From what others have since 888 is now essentially BKR (with Ian Harrison hanging around like a bad smell) and has become Warren's junior squad I don't think they're being expected to perform as well as the other manufacturers. But if BMR can't pull through and start winning I think heads will start to roll. |
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11 Apr 2017, 17:37 (Ref:3725580) | #274 | |||
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11 Apr 2017, 17:52 (Ref:3725584) | #275 | |
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Fair do's, must just have a squarer profile (vs a slight stretch) of tyre to fit to the rim as there's a limit to how much wider you can go with a tyre before you need a wider rim.
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