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Old 24 Jun 2006, 11:35 (Ref:1640248)   #76
ian beckett
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Just taken a look on ebay and there are two Jagermeister/Stuck cars for sale at £41,buy now,sale number 7038865846.They really are fabulous models;when I bought mine from the local BMW dealers they sold another two there and then to mechanics who didn't usually buy''toys''!
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Old 24 Jun 2006, 12:45 (Ref:1640260)   #77
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ian, the white/silver/black car the SouthAfrican's raced in 85 TT entered by Sytner sounds like one of the ex CC GB car's?
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Old 24 Jun 2006, 13:05 (Ref:1640269)   #78
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Exactly what I thought but I wanted someone else to suggest it!!
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Old 24 Jun 2006, 14:42 (Ref:1640300)   #79
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Exactly what I thought but I wanted someone else to suggest it!!
I had much the same thought when I read your post- now I'm confused....
I did briefly wonder if maybe they'd hired Mike Newman's car, which was still in basically the CC Motorsport colours, but a quick check in my race programme confirmed that the Newman car was on the entry list- he finished behind the South Africans in 9th

The race number for the South Africans was 35 by the way- and the race programme lists the entrant as 'Sytner BMW Raacing with GSI', the same as Frank's number 9 car.
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Old 24 Jun 2006, 15:11 (Ref:1640313)   #80
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Good morning Alex,I am looking right now at a letter I received from Greg Siddle who was team boss at Goold Motorsport who ran the car with chassis number 55 in Australia. In the letter, he confirms thar this car had not run since Adelaide'85 and had subsequently been on display around Australia.The car was then rebuilt to'86 spec and was then raced by Charlie O'Brien/Gary Rogers at the Sandown 500,Bathurst and then ran in the South Pacific series before being shipped to Fuji where Pirro/O'Brien drove it to second place.The car retured to OZ and was sold to the Bob Jane Corporation.He finished by saying there were no plans for the car to race again.The letter was dated 11th November 1986!
According to the 1986 Bathurst yearbook, it was used for Sandown, Bathurst etc after Garry Roger's regular car (described as the ex-Jim Richards JPS car from 1985) was shunted in a late season ATCC round- the ex-JPS car was also rebuilt and took on the display and spare car role for Bathurst
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Old 24 Jun 2006, 18:12 (Ref:1640415)   #81
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Just discovered that the ex-Cheylesmore car we discussed earlier in the thread raced at the Nurburgring Youngtimer event last weekend driven by Jody Halse.Perhaps that is why it did not race at Brands?
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Old 24 Jun 2006, 20:24 (Ref:1640486)   #82
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Hi Ian,
I agree with most of your ### but the RA001 is curious. The Kelleners / Grano Eggenburger car sold to the UK was built very early around the `prototype` era of the 635. This might explain a strange ch # & could be this car. #50 was originally sold to Brun. Also #75 was eith written off or used to replace one that was.
Lasty the Group N 635 that Barrie Williams drove went to NZ & is still there I think.
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Old 24 Jun 2006, 22:49 (Ref:1640570)   #83
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RA2-44 was the 1985 Australian Touring Car Championship winning car of Jim Richards'. I recently sold the car in original trim to a guy who works in Hong Kong and will keep and race the car in Melbourne. The car was sold to Rogers and Keogh then to Joe Somariva the to John Hebron then to me and on to Adrian O'brien. I hope this clears up one of the chassis histories for you.
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Old 25 Jun 2006, 07:44 (Ref:1640677)   #84
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Well here is a image of the emerling car as raced last weekend. I truely had a tear in my eye when he arrived with it a few years ago after the rebuild.

I think what killed me more was the Perkins chevy powerplant!



He still race as much as he can and makes a few people look pathetic even if he out for a sunday drive! LOL
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Old 25 Jun 2006, 08:06 (Ref:1640685)   #85
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Its a Perkins Holden engine I thought, one of the early '90s powerplants left over after LP switched to Chevrolet
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Old 25 Jun 2006, 08:17 (Ref:1640693)   #86
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I am still curious about the ch # 62 that was sold to BMW GB in red colour, I can only think this was because od a sponsor they had lined up. As when you ordered one of these cars / kits you could choose the colour. The Bastos / Juma cars were delivered in red, all of the JPS cars were delivered in black, etc....
Going back to the two pictures posted by GTRMagic the lower one is obviously a Schnitzer car. You can tell by the squared fuel tank box under the rear bumper, and the black roll cage.
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Old 25 Jun 2006, 08:24 (Ref:1640695)   #87
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Originally Posted by Alex E
Going back to the two pictures posted by GTRMagic the lower one is obviously a Schnitzer car. You can tell by the squared fuel tank box under the rear bumper, and the black roll cage.
If the bottom pic is a Schnitzer car, as opposed to a JPS car, it is likely the 2nd placegetter from Bathurst 1985... the orange one
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Old 25 Jun 2006, 09:26 (Ref:1640711)   #88
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I am still curious about the ch # 62 that was sold to BMW GB in red colour, I can only think this was because od a sponsor they had lined up. As when you ordered one of these cars / kits you could choose the colour. The Bastos / Juma cars were delivered in red, all of the JPS cars were delivered in black, etc.....
Yes Alex me too!

I've racked my brains a helluva lot about this no. 62 and it keeps taking me towards a possible news story pre '85 season. IIRC CC/BMW GB hadn't said they weren't going to do the series again until very late in the day?

Although I don't have the snippets to hand, MN particularly at the time was trying to get an angle on BMW GB's plans. There may have even been a story doing the rounds that Schnitzer were being asked by BMW GB to do the season or some guest rounds? I'm nowhere near sure on that though.

I agree with your thoughts about pre ordering a colour also. Could it be that the importer had lined up a new team/sponsor which subsequently fell through?

I suspect one of 3 things.

1/ BMW GB aquired an extra car with the thought of the CC deal continuing.

2/ This was a new planned effort which fell through.

3/ The Schnitzer invitation (BMW GB) car i referred to above?

Bet it's nothing as exciting as any of these though!!!

Someone will know, but will they be able to confirm it?!!
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Old 25 Jun 2006, 09:50 (Ref:1640726)   #89
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Going back to one of my earlier posts,I mentioned the letter that Dave Cook wrote to me and he makes no mention of a car which could have been chassis #62 and that letter was dated May 1987 and we were now in the M3 era. Coming on to the Simon Emmerling car im OZ,his then team manager Kerry Malone kindly wrote to me in '86and confirmed that their car was indeed chassis number34,ex-Schnitzer.Interestingly,one of the sponsors of the car back then was Polyplastics,Emmerlings company and unless I am mistaken that is the lettering on the side of the present day car? Alex's most recent post triggered something in my brain and looking through my file I found a request for help from a guy called Gerry Hodges who is the president of the New Zealand BMW club.He is the present owner of the ex-Barrie Williams Gp N car built by Ted Grace and delivered to Malcolm Gartlan Racing.He suggests the car is chassis number E24 RA2/46.He goes on to say he had heard the car was crashed in testing and was rebuilt in Group A spec'? He now runs the car in historic racing in New Zealand and from the two small pictures which accompany the article it certainly has the stance of a group A machine!He says he has a letter from BMW Motorsports confirming the chassis provenance.
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Old 25 Jun 2006, 10:02 (Ref:1640733)   #90
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Having re-read all the posts again a few minutes ago(it's sad I know!!) I saw a few comments about favourite memories of the car and mine has to be of Hans Stuck in practice at Donington for the '83 ETC meeting.I watched in awe as lap after lap he would approach Mcleans at unabated speed and launch the car over the kerbs causing the car to rise onto two and at the time I believed on occasions onto only the rear outside wheel before charging up the hill.He would gain yards on those around him and others tried but always failed to emulate his method. Great days because at the time Donington still had trees in parts coming right down to the edge of the barriers and sitting amongst the pines on a warm.sunny spring day it made me think of the Nurburgring!
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Old 25 Jun 2006, 11:05 (Ref:1640764)   #91
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It seems possible that Stuck might be re-united with the Cheylesmore 635 for a race at Spa next month.
Best piece of film I saw of 635`s was Stuck at Spa 24 Hours early in the race going over the top of Eau Rouge on one wheel in the wet. 1984 or 85?
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Old 25 Jun 2006, 11:19 (Ref:1640773)   #92
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All this info. emerging is fantastic and there is no doubt in my mind that we will be able collate this into a really good archive for these cars. Can I gently just urge caution about quoting chunks from books etc, due to copyright issues. However, a summary of the same information in your own words (quoting the source) overcomes that difficulty.
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Old 25 Jun 2006, 12:16 (Ref:1640805)   #93
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Ian you are correct! Simon still owns Polyplastics and has made heaps of unusual stuff through that company for people. I think Kerry is still with him.

There is a story about Frank gardner and Jimmy Richards and Simon on a drive day. Lets say Jimmy went faster in this car then his own! If i remember correctly after every meeting the engine went back to Schnitzer to be rebuilt. That a long way from Western Australia.

Other people to race it are Trevor Hine and the one and only John Bowe. I miss the Wannaroo 300. (cavy we need it back!)
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Old 26 Jun 2006, 01:54 (Ref:1641250)   #94
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I kept tabs on the Kiwi 635s, which was quite easy at the time, because there weren't many of them. But this is going back 20 years now, and the memories have become fuzzy. I thought, for some reason, the Sytner car, co driven by John Morton in the '85 Wellington Street Race, and which nearly won the race, later went to either Charlie O'Brien, or Garry Rogers. But I could well be wrong about this. This car was lhd. Some still claim there was a mis-count in the number of laps, and that Sytner/Morton actually won the race. It has recently been restored, and was racing at a historic event earlier this year in its '85 Wellington Street Race livery.

Jim Richards co-drove with Morton in the '86 event, in a lhd car. I assume this is the Sytner/Morton '85 car?

I was at Manfeild in late '85/early '86 when Denny Hulme in Ray Smiths Commodore, and Kent Baigent in the 635 made contact, with Baigent barrel rolling along the corrugated fence on the back straight.

Trevor Crowe apparently had two Archibald owned, ex JPS 635s. I didn't learn this until recently, when Graham Dodd, the cars owner, told me. The car he has seems to have seen little action since Crowe drove it. David Towe will know more of this cars history.

What happened to the ex JPS Crichton car? Jim Boult races a JPS 635 in South Island historic events. Is this the same car?
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Old 26 Jun 2006, 16:53 (Ref:1641778)   #95
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I found a request for help from a guy called Gerry Hodges who is the president of the New Zealand BMW club.He is the present owner of the ex-Barrie Williams Gp N car built by Ted Grace and delivered to Malcolm Gartlan Racing.He suggests the car is chassis number E24 RA2/46.He goes on to say he had heard the car was crashed in testing and was rebuilt in Group A spec'? He now runs the car in historic racing in New Zealand and from the two small pictures which accompany the article it certainly has the stance of a group A machine!He says he has a letter from BMW Motorsports confirming the chassis provenance.
I'm not sure I want to suggest this, but if #46 was the Group N car, then does that mean there may be an additional ex-Sytner Group A car (ie the second car built in 84) we still haven't accounted for?- and could this give any clue as to the identity of the car raced by the South Africans at the 85 TT?

In other words, what did Frank sell to NZ- 2x Group A cars as we originally thought, a Group A and a Group N (since rebuilt to GpA in NZ), or two x Group A, one of which had been rebuilt from a Group N car?
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Old 26 Jun 2006, 20:15 (Ref:1642002)   #96
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Seem to remember being told the car in NZ had the cage removed & was trimmed & used as a road car for about 100,000kms then returned to race spec!
Ian, can you tell me anything else you know about E24-RA2-60 ? I have this car here & I am restoring it. It is the car that won the Spa 24 Hours in `85 with Berger, Ravaglia, Surer. I have documents from the sale of the car from Schnitzer to Finland, but was interested that you said it raced again in `86?
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Old 27 Jun 2006, 12:55 (Ref:1642544)   #97
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Hi Alex,Charly Lamm gave me a list of all the 635's which Schnitzer had built, and any customers they had sold to and in the list he confirms that chassis #60 had been used by the team during '85.As his letter was dated January 1986 the car could indeed have been sold to Finland later in the year.Schnitzer did build new cars for the '86 season and I have to be honest and say I cannot find where I got the fact about #60 being used in early '86 races from!! The only reference to a Finnish owned 635 I have is a guy called Seppo Palmroth being entered for a Swedish championship race in 1989 but I have no further information. Obviously today with the benefits if the internet we would have all the races around the globe recorded but 20 odd years ago there was precious little apart from the major championships being recorded.
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Old 27 Jun 2006, 13:07 (Ref:1642560)   #98
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Hi Steve,the Manfield crash you witnessed was the race which indeed finished Kent Baigents car and the useable remains were as already mentioned sold to Graham Lorimer.The Archibald Motors cars were both ex_JPS/Gardner,the first of these being the Neville Crichton car you asked about and the later car they owned was the '86 Jim Richards car.They were last used at the '87 Wellington WTC event and I have nothing on them after that.It would be good to learn of their whereabouts post Archibald Motors up to the present where they may be appearing in ''historic''racing?
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Old 27 Jun 2006, 14:14 (Ref:1642616)   #99
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My old car, RA2-44 (1985 ATCC winning car) had a fairly decent hit that resulted in the cage being changed at some stage, unfortunately I don't know where or when.
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Old 27 Jun 2006, 19:51 (Ref:1642872)   #100
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Team Schnitzer-Eterna

As a Marshal at the 1983 Canon Tourist Trophy,I remember helping Hans Stuck out of his rather second hand looking 635csi,after he lost a wheel going through Abbey curve and ploughed side on into the Farm barriers
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