WARNING: TGF is harmful to F1's health. (The proof!)

[Red]

nah, that's the effect not the cause...

[alesi95]

Off topic

Hahaha brilliant!...........I have absolutely no idea what's going on.

Does that have anything to do with The Simpsons and Twin Peaks by any chance?

[freud]

Originally posted by Red
The best question ever, which noone even tries to answer is "why does he have the best contract". Any clue?

Actually thats a very thoughtful question.... btw this question can be a great title for Yoong Montoya's next thread. Yoong, are you there?

I find the opinion of Wrex very interesting. I think that JPM is one driver who has what it takes to challenge Michael's domination, but he doesnt have the experience, nor the equipment to do so. Williams will improve next year but so will Ferrari. Michael will win the title again.

[Liz]

He's got a really good lawyer? Or several really good lawyers? (Don't say "because he's worth it" -- I know a lot of people with really good lawyers who are getting a lot more than anybody with a brain would believe they are worth.)

[Yoong Montoya]

Originally posted by freud


Actually thats a very thoughtful question.... btw this question can be a great title for Yoong Montoya's next thread. Yoong, are you there?

I find the opinion of Wrex very interesting. I think that JPM is one driver who has what it takes to challenge Michael's domination, but he doesnt have the experience, nor the equipment to do so. Williams will improve next year but so will Ferrari. Michael will win the title again.

Ferrari give Michael No.1 status because he has a far better chance than Rubens to win the WDC. Rubens ain't in Schumi's league. And I don't know if Rubens and Michael were even racing in Austria this year. They could have set fastest lap even if they were cruising.

I'd say that next year Ferrari will probably win both championships again, but it won't be as easy for them as it was this year. When one team dominates like Ferrari have this year, the following year they are less dominant than before.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Yoong Montoya




I'd say that next year Ferrari will probably win both championships again, but it won't be as easy for them as it was this year.

Isn't that what everyone was saying last year and look what happened!

Originally posted by Yoong Montoya


When one team dominates like Ferrari have this year, the following year they are less dominant than before.

The reason that the Ferrari team will dominate next year is that this years car is so good that they has a good basis for next years car, all the other teams are trying to develop a car that will always be that one step behind.

[Red]

Originally posted by Liz
He's got a really good lawyer? Or several really good lawyers? (Don't say "because he's worth it" -- I know a lot of people with really good lawyers who are getting a lot more than anybody with a brain would believe they are worth.)

Liz, you actually still don't get it. What those lawyers have to do to bring him that contract for 9 year. 9 (nine) years!!! Just in case you STILL don't realise: 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004.....and still counting. Actually lawyers do not negociate the amount anyway. You may say that Weber really is a genius but that does not suffice. For that kind of "enormity" you imply that Ferrari's lawyers and management are all idiots. They must be so stupid that actually the Italian press reposretd that a new deal was "proposed" (as opposed to asked by Willi Weber) to Schumacher: 150 million euro for another 2 years. Somehow I don't think that all Ferrari stuff are stupid so yes I will way that he's worth it.

[RaceCarFanatic]

I think it's up to the other teams to step and take the challegene. Ferrari weren't always champions and now that they are people want to bash them because of it. Ferrari did what they needed to do to get the championship. They worked to get better then McLaren and got the results.

[Liz]

Alex Rodriguez, who is a baseball player, gets $267 million dollars to hit a ball with a stick. He gets that kind of money because he has very good lawyers.

If you don't think lawyers negotiate contracts, you have never been a lawyer.

You are the one who "don't get it", Red. You think that big numbers on a paycheque prove somebody's "worth".

Anyway that's not the topic, is it? The topic is that people have stopped watching and stopped attending races in significant numbers that even Bernie is noticing. Why are they doing this? Because they are bored. Why are they bored? Because there's nothing to look forward to after lap 2. What can be done about this?

Damned if I know. Watch Rally, I guess.

[f1manoz]

Originally posted by Liz
What can be done about this?

Damned if I know. Watch Rally, I guess.

Or watch the MotoGP Championship, in particular the 125cc World Championship, THE MOST EXCITING RACING ON THE PLANET!!!

Hey, at least you can stay awake during those races, unlike the boring processions F1 has thrown up of late.

[Jukebox]

Originally posted by mr v


The reason that the Ferrari team will dominate next year is that this years car is so good that they has a good basis for next years car, all the other teams are trying to develop a car that will always be that one step behind.

Exactlty! but lets hope it'll be a second or less a lap rather than 2 secs a lap gap.

[Red]

Originally posted by Liz
Alex Rodriguez, who is a baseball player, gets $267 million dollars to hit a ball with a stick. He gets that kind of money because he has very good lawyers.

No, he's get that kind of money because he's worth it. Liz, you're the best! I really mean it! Alex (and yes, I did a google to find who's the guy) signed for $ 252,000,000, like you said. Like you said he has to hit the ball with the stick. What you did not say is that he has to hit it 10 years. The difference that his lawyers make (and I reckon that he has good lawyers) is that he's signed for 10 years in advance.

It can for example be a case of bad management from the part of Texas Rangers. Certainly a man cannot win a match all by himself and if they cannot hire other good players (because they ran short of cash) that that was a bad deal. And it's not Schumacher's case anyway. He did NOT sign a 10 years contract in 1996, but Ferrari periodically renew it (and increase his salary). That means that they considered the previous investment as a good one and want more of the same.

Anyway that's not the topic, is it? The topic is that people have stopped watching and stopped attending races in significant numbers that even Bernie is noticing.

No, the topic was about a TV channel that claims that it steals audience from a concurrent TV channel. And that topic has a very stupid title that makes a direct connection to Michael Schumacher. However, may I point out it became a thread about contracts when a Certain Canadian Press Officer Rally Watcher and Active F1-forum contributor made a very explicit reference to it?

[alchemy]

Originally posted by Red
7 years in a row being the best paid sportsman (plus he signed for at least 2 more years) requires more than just good communication. Any other guess?

Hurts me to say it - but I’m with you on this Red!

[freud]

Red,

Sorry to jump in this conversation.. just bringing up a point...

Can you ever imagine a driver of Ralf's calibre making 15 million dollars a year while his teammate is making $ 2 millon? Is Ralf worth $13 million more than JPM?... I bet the answer is 'NO'...

Ralf has really good lawyers.. OK!

Back to Michael... Yes he has the best contract and in some ways he is the best driver out there. Lets not forget the fact that Willi Weber has a big part to play in his success. After the death of Senna there was a vacuum in F1... sponsors such as Marlboro who spent millions on Senna) were looking for the 'next' Senna. And I must say that at that particular moment in history, Schumacher was their best bet. And credit goes to Willi Weber for making that happen. Ferrari doesnt pay a dime to Michael... Marlboro, Shell, Vodafone, Tommy Hilfiger etc are the ones who pay for him. Its a package.

The Schumachers have the best management team in Willi Weber.. just ask JV and he would tell you about a **** like Craig Pollock who destryed his career.

Hope you understand....

[Red]

Originally posted by freud
Can you ever imagine a driver of Ralf's calibre making 15 million dollars a year while his teammate is making $ 2 millon?

Yes I can.

Freud. Everyone is given exactly what is worth it. No more, no less. Occasionally someone can make a mistake and that's excusable. To persevere in repeating the same mistake over many-many years it's stupidity. And somehow I do strongly believe that none of the teammanagers are stupid.

PS: Jacques is worth exactly what he gets: a load of cash but not a car. It WAS a case of bad management, but only because they couldn't make that car work. Schumacher is worth exactly what he gets: a bigger load of cash AND the best car. I mean he did get only the cash; unlike Jacques, he actually made that car the best. Hmm... now that I mentioned I realised that he's actually underpaid....

I hope you understand...

[freud]

Liz is gone so I am holding the fort... just kidding.

Red, typical BS. How long am I going to see you taking one point from my post and blowing it up. Infact you didnt answer 99% of what was in my previous post. Anyway...

Once again you are wrong. Ralf is not worth $15 million. Its his second name.. 'Schumacher'. If his second name was 'Dick' he wouldnt be paid 0.05% of what he's being paid now. Infact he would never get a chance to even drive for Williams. I can name 10 drivers on grid who deserve to get their hands on the Williams FW 25 and are better bet than Ralf. Dont you see... its the lawyers, the management!! OK!!!

[kmchow]

Originally posted by Yoong Montoya



Ferrari give Michael No.1 status because he has a far better chance than Rubens to win the WDC. Rubens ain't in Schumi's league. And I don't know if Rubens and Michael were even racing in Austria this year. They could have set fastest lap even if they were cruising.

But whose to say? Perhaps "wearing the #1 jacket", Rubens can equal Schumacher? It would be interesting to flip the two driver's status around and see how they perform? Either way, Ferrari's gonna win the '03 already. Perhaps even '04?

[Liz]

"Everyone is paid exactly what he is worth."

So, Red, when your father has a heart attack, you're going to take him straight to Alex Rodriguez?

You think TGF is worth 100 times what a really good operating room nurse is worth?

And should you say "every sportsman is worth exactly what he is paid", then just mention the name "Doug Wickenheiser" to anyone on the Montreal Canadiens staff past or present. And put your hands over your ears.

[Red]

Oh yes Freud, it really was a double post...
----------

Originally posted by Liz
So, Red, when your father has a heart attack, you're going to take him straight to Alex Rodriguez?

What exactly was that supposed to mean? Are you Brett Muckton by any chance? Of course you're not, actually I believe that you argued hard with him on the same subject a couple of years ago.

The link between a (not my father's of course) heartattack and Rodrigues, if any, is so subtle that somehopw I miss it. But I will try to answer. NO I will NOT take him to Rodrigues. Rodrigues is supposed to hit a ball with a stick. The nurse is supposed to pass scalpels to a surgeon. Actually I would sue Alex if he tried to enter the emergency room.

Anyway, if you really want to make a point, and if you really expect a reply try to use examples from championships that everyone is familiar. NHL is not. And if the Canadiens staff are aware that the deal was bull, but they still did sign the contract, then they ARE idiots. And if they still are there to make me put hand over the ears then the team owners (who they might be) ARE idiots no less. And they do deserve their faith (and yes, they're worth it )

[Gt_R]

i'm amused by the way-off reference some posters use just to prove somethings... when the link between the 2 is almost bordering being ridiculous.

If anybody wants to fault Michael's contracts and pay...perhaps they should look at more laughable ones like JV.

Ferrari had renewed Michael's contracts...and by renewing it, while choosing to increase his pay...shows that the company see that employee as a good investment, because they believe the RETURNS they get from the investment is worth it. Red may not have lawyer...and some people were just not born a businessman nor study economic nor allow logic flow.

I do not deny that having Willi does help...and sometimes, i do find Michael, together with the likes of Tiger Woods, being paid excessive. But at least...Michael is worth as a driver more than any others.

Frankly, it's tiring to see everything turn into a "let's stone Michael" issue. Let it rest.