Cost Cutting.... Tyre limits

[Walshy]

As discussed in the THREAD "COSTS", please see below.

"Blah Blah Blah.

Heard it all before.

This tyre arguement was raised a couple of years ago and many people (and plenty that post on here) scoffed at the idea of limiting the number of tyres we use.

I spearheaded trying to get the number of sets per year capped and of all people, it was actually AVON that agreed with me!!!!!!!!

Fair play to them. I sat down and discussed it with them and they said that in all the other Championships that they supply tyres that impose a limit, they actually sell more tyres.

If you limited every competitor to 3 sets of new tyres per year (easily policed by serial number), then everyone competing would buy three sets. As it is at the moment, most clubbies run on one to 2 sets and 3 or 4 drivers might by 5+ for a year.

Wet races? That's down to you! Keep one set for wet (just in case) and be clever with the other 8. Mix and Match. "Tyre Management"

If you get a puncture, you can have a replacement if it can't be repaired (and yes, a puncture repair on a race tyre works as effiiently as it does on a road tyre).

So yes, a lot of the drivers were in favour and a lot wasn't. The tyre manufacturer was in favour. Great. But the next step was to take it to the BRSCC and a regulation change was required. This is where it ground to a halt. I put it to the Club and never heard anything back.

AS I haven't been active for the last 2 years and nobody else seemed bothered (typical apathy), I never persued it, but if everyone agreed to it, then we could make it happen for next year. I'll start a new Thread and put a poll on it.

Have your say!"

[Flavio Galtieri]

Well I've voted because it's a no-brainer for anyone on a limited budget.

Just about to leave for our 4th meeting, 6th. race of the year and pretty much decided to buy new rubber which would make our third set this year. The reason is, although I reckon there's enough on the set that has done qually and a race at Silverstone and qually and two races at Snet I KNOW that there will be a performance drop off this time out and I don't want to send my driver out disadvantaged as we'll all be wasting our time. We might as well stay at home and watch the GP. So the credit card comes out again....

I'm sure this is why there is a drop off in entries. If you know others are in the same position and have to "manage" their rubber the same as you there must be more likelyhood of attracting the less well financed driver to race.

[FFfan]

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

Well I've voted because it's a no-brainer for anyone on a limited budget.

Just about to leave for our 4th meeting, 6th. race of the year and pretty much decided to buy new rubber which would make our third set this year. The reason is, although I reckon there's enough on the set that has done qually and a race at Silverstone and qually and two races at Snet I KNOW that there will be a performance drop off this time out and I don't want to send my driver out disadvantaged as we'll all be wasting our time. We might as well stay at home and watch the GP. So the credit card comes out again....

I'm sure this is why there is a drop off in entries. If you know others are in the same position and have to "manage" their rubber the same as you there must be more likelyhood of attracting the less well financed driver to race.

I generally agree. I know the Southern Irish FF1600 championship limit themselves to two sets per season. Unfortunately though this doesn't seem to benefit grid sizes with their numbers struggling to get into double figures so far this season. The other problem is when you have a driver turn up just to do a round or two late in the season and can still use two sets. He can obviously be on fresh rubber while you are stuck with your tyre management programme. Don't get me wrong; I'm not knocking cost saveing initiatives, I'm just pointing out it's not necessairily a panacea.

[Triple J Motorsport]

Originally Posted by FFfan

I generally agree. I know the Southern Irish FF1600 championship limit themselves to two sets per season. Unfortunately though this doesn't seem to benefit grid sizes with their numbers struggling to get into double figures so far this season. The other problem is when you have a driver turn up just to do a round or two late in the season and can still use two sets. He can obviously be on fresh rubber while you are stuck with your tyre management programme. Don't get me wrong; I'm not knocking cost saveing initiatives, I'm just pointing out it's not necessairily a panacea.

Pro rata them so after 1/2 the rounds you only get 1 set tyres ok still an advantage but not as great. After 1/4 of the rounds 6 tyres.

Seems a very low number of sets by the last round they'd be slicks, do you get heavy rain in Ireland in September/October

[50-SIX]

Yeah, agree with the limit sort of, but up the limit from 3 sets. I think 6 would be a reasonable figure for a 10 round c'ship.

Although, there is nothing like the feeling of bolting on a new set of boots and heading out on track for quali to go balls out with more grip than usual. One of the best feelings in motorsport in my view. winning aside obviously.

p.S. If you are out of tyres and you get a puncture, do you get a 10 place grid penalty at the next round.

[Athgoe Racing]

Tyres are free if it rains in the S.Irish champ. 2 sets for the dry rounds, works fine.

[Walshy]

Originally Posted by 50-SIX

Yeah, agree with the limit sort of, but up the limit from 3 sets. I think 6 would be a reasonable figure for a 10 round c'ship.

Although, there is nothing like the feeling of bolting on a new set of boots and heading out on track for quali to go balls out with more grip than usual. One of the best feelings in motorsport in my view. winning aside obviously.

p.S. If you are out of tyres and you get a puncture, do you get a 10 place grid penalty at the next round.

That could be interesting................................

[driftwood]

Walshy
when will the poll finish so far 24 bodies have voted and there are what 200 Fford racers using avon tyres?

can you then host a poll on the notion of changing tyre supplier
I suggest these questions are they suitable questions?

1 do you want to see 3 year rule to evaluate tyre supplier on cost and wear rate with a view to a change of supplier?
2 would you be happy with cheaper set of tyres with same lap time and current wear rate?
3 would you be happy with cheaper tyres that last longer and maybe upto 0.7 sec lap slower?
4 you are happy with current supplier?

[Walshy]

Originally Posted by driftwood

Walshy
when will the poll finish so far 24 bodies have voted and there are what 200 Fford racers using avon tyres?

can you then host a poll on the notion of changing tyre supplier
I suggest these questions are they suitable questions?

1 do you want to see 3 year rule to evaluate tyre supplier on cost and wear rate with a view to a change of supplier?
2 would you be happy with cheaper set of tyres with same lap time and current wear rate?
3 would you be happy with cheaper tyres that last longer and maybe upto 0.7 sec lap slower?
4 you are happy with current supplier?

I have put the word out to come and vote on this, so we will give it another couple of weeks. No rush at the moment though as long as we can get something sorted for next year.

[onenastyviper]

Just to let you all know I voted 'Not bothered'...
For me personally, I would not vote against having a tyre limit nor would I vote in favour as there are good arguments either way. Having a limit would limit 1st hand costs but increase the price of 2nd hand tyres and limit the availability.
So either way, I would probably (actually will be out of pocket but that's not the point) end up out of pocket. No limit would mean available 2nd hand tyres but a tyre limit would increase the price of 2nd hand tyres by laws of supply and demand.

[Walshy]

Originally Posted by onenastyviper

Just to let you all know I voted 'Not bothered'...
For me personally, I would not vote against having a tyre limit nor would I vote in favour as there are good arguments either way. Having a limit would limit 1st hand costs but increase the price of 2nd hand tyres and limit the availability.
So either way, I would probably (actually will be out of pocket but that's not the point) end up out of pocket. No limit would mean available 2nd hand tyres but a tyre limit would increase the price of 2nd hand tyres by laws of supply and demand.

You say that, but 2nd hand tyres would be worth nothing. As everyone would have to effectively, "use them up". There would be nothing to sell second hand other than bald sets. Who would want them?

[onenastyviper]

Originally Posted by Walshy

You say that, but 2nd hand tyres would be worth nothing. As everyone would have to effectively, "use them up". There would be nothing to sell second hand other than bald sets. Who would want them?

Didn't think of it like that.

On the other hand, bald ~= slick ~= superfast

[driftwood]

Walshy yr right f3 was free with slicks we used to use them in club events
when rule was enforced on 6 units not sets! per weekend the used units where good for tyre barriers

[Redracer77]

F4 have discussed tyre limits for next season last weekend at Cadwell and the club said it was the drivers choice. We took a vote and all voted in favour of a tyre limit. We are just working on whether we go for 3 sets or 4 sets a season.

The 750mc have agreed with us - job done.

In the BRSCC's world any change to regs takes about 3 - 4 years? But the 750mc actually listens to its customers.

[schuey57]

just shows how quick a rule can be changed, I'm asking something similar in classic ff2000 racing, and a all in driver/car weight.

how are 750mc going to police the tyre rule?,

does the f4 run a all in weight?

[Redracer77]

you will have to register your tyres with the club - each tyre has a barcode and they will get checked in scruitineering to see if the tyres you have on the car match the ones registered. Everytime you buy a new set you just have to give the codes to the club at signing on.

[driftwood]

SIMPLES innit
Just ask Alexander @ compare the meerkats.com

those who want to abuse the system will soon get chucked out and it would not be a bad thing IF the chassis was also registered to the club with a club reg plate added so if the driver is banned so is his car for life
soon stop the cheating/abusers from wrong doing

[kartingdad]

Originally Posted by driftwood

SIMPLES innit
Just ask Alexander @ compare the meerkats.com

those who want to abuse the system will soon get chucked out and it would not be a bad thing IF the chassis was also registered to the club with a club reg plate added so if the driver is banned so is his car for life
soon stop the cheating/abusers from wrong doing

I don't think thats going to catch on somehow.

[driftwood]

if it was imposed it would stop the cheats as they would then have UNSALEABLE car
it would not be a bad thing to install the plates onto cars for every championship any car to race in a series would have to register be inspected to qualify and easy to ban any cheating cars
Germany has ONS papers for a car Australia has CAMS papers logbook for race cars usa had SCCA logbooks and registration
rally cars have them
when a cheater is caught what happens?
Publicly flogged in the square?
nowt he is banned at most from a series but you hurt him more by banning registered cars

[kartingdad]

He gets excluded from the race. Once is generally enough.