[Official] 2014 Formula 1 PETRONAS Malaysia Grand Prix

[321Go]

Looking for the NOS bottle that was fitted to the RB10's just before the Australian GP?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

The point is that the penalty is out of proportion to the offense. No one is saying no discipline at all although the delay in being pushed back and the wheel properly fastened is a racing punishment enough for the team and the driver.
The fact that the penalty is the same for minor and for serious offences is one of the problems with automatic penalties is my point because for one offence it is appropriate and for another it is to harsh or too soft. That is my point.

I have never suggested Ricciardo was being picked on regarding this incident

You keep arguing against yourself, or at least the reality of the current penalty system.

The F1 Working Group felt that releasing a car without the wheel being safely attached warranted the automatic punishment of a drive-through plus a ten place grid penalty at the next race. They, including Red Bull's Christian Horner who voted in favour of this penalty, did not deem it necessary to include a clause stating that mitigating circumstances should be taken into consideration. So, this punishment will be the same for any team, including a theoretical team whose car gets out of the pits, wheel falls off because it was not attached properly, and crashes into the barriers thereby causing a DNF. By allowing the stewards discretion, the team would be pleading that they had been punished sufficiently by the car failing to finish the race.

As it is now, there can be no ifs or buts - you transgress ( as Horner seems to acknowledge they did) you take your punishment as laid out in the rule book which is the same for every team in the pit lane.

As for the severity of the penalty and it's application to misdeeds of varying levels of offence, I am not aware of this being the case. This particular penalty for the release of a car with an unsecured wheel was introduced purely for safety reasons; I would hope that all other infractions that inpact on safety would be treated exactly the same. Other automatic penalties, though, do include just a drive-through, a stop and go, a 3,5 or 10 place grid penalty, there is also extra time added to the cars race time and even exclusion.

These are the rules and regulations that Red Bull, as well as all the other teams, have signed up for when they applied to the FIA to enter this year's championship. Please do not expect any team to plead, once they have entered the championship, that they do not believe that all the rules apply to them.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

You keep arguing against yourself, or at least the reality of the current penalty system.

The F1 Working Group felt that releasing a car without the wheel being safely attached warranted the automatic punishment of a drive-through plus a ten place grid penalty at the next race. They, including Red Bull's Christian Horner who voted in favour of this penalty, did not deem it necessary to include a clause stating that mitigating circumstances should be taken into consideration. So, this punishment will be the same for any team, including a theoretical team whose car gets out of the pits, wheel falls off because it was not attached properly, and crashes into the barriers thereby causing a DNF. By allowing the stewards discretion, the team would be pleading that they had been punished sufficiently by the car failing to finish the race.

As it is now, there can be no ifs or buts - you transgress ( as Horner seems to acknowledge they did) you take your punishment as laid out in the rule book which is the same for every team in the pit lane.

As for the severity of the penalty and it's application to misdeeds of varying levels of offence, I am not aware of this being the case. This particular penalty for the release of a car with an unsecured wheel was introduced purely for safety reasons; I would hope that all other infractions that inpact on safety would be treated exactly the same. Other automatic penalties, though, do include just a drive-through, a stop and go, a 3,5 or 10 place grid penalty, there is also extra time added to the cars race time and even exclusion.

These are the rules and regulations that Red Bull, as well as all the other teams, have signed up for when they applied to the FIA to enter this year's championship. Please do not expect any team to plead, once they have entered the championship, that they do not believe that all the rules apply to them.

The reality of the current system Mike, is that automatic penalties do not facilitate justice within the judicial system. I have been involved with motorsport judiciary for over the last twelve years at over 400 meetings. I have enough experience to know what the principles of motorsport adjudication are, what works, what doesn't, what is fair and reasonable, what the rules are, what responsibilities are and how adjudication on competitive matters should be made.

I don't agree with what is happening in F1 because it is not fair, reasonable or conducive to good judicial decisions, and fair competition. I know what the rules say but they are not all that good for the sport and they are not helping the sport. In fact I believe the FIA is creating a rod for its own back...

[aki13]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

As penalties goes these days, it does seem like the outcome of any touch becomes one. It makes you wonder how Arnoux and Villeneuve at Dijon would have been interpreted these days, but isn't that what motorsport is about, going wheel to wheel? Not that this was contact between two cars.

Exactly. Both would have been demoted to 3rd and 4th and given grid penalties for the next race........

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

I would not have penalised him for it.
There was no deliberate intention to interfere with the other driver at all but we have a 'blame and punish' culture emerging that is doing nothing to foster wheel to wheel competition and is in fact discouraging it by penalising the most innocent racing incidents.

Not only no deliberate intent, but not even any foolishness, carelessness or recklessness, at least not from the camera angle we have seen. I am loathe to introduce conspiracy theory, but it looks a bit like that old offence of "colliding with a red car" that I thought had been eradicated from the FIA statute book.

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by stripedcat

Did anyone find the choice of Benedict Cumberbatch for the post race interviews, strange?

Whoever he is, I thought he was very good at it, better than most who've done the interviews.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Tucky

One thing I just remembered, when Ricciardo was being pushed back to his box after the tyre incident I swear I saw a cameraman running with the car filming it.

I'm pretty sure they're still only allowed to film from the pitwall, or has that been rescinded this year?

That was changed last year - it was a high-profile knee-jerk and the powers upstairs realised pretty quickly that it was. As far as I can recall it might not even have lasted one full race weekend.

[Born Racer]

How on earth can Magnussen have been penalised?! By a stupid arse system intent on finding fault for a perfect demonstration of a racing incident. Raikkonen, if anything, was the one more at fault but even then, it was a nothing moment.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

How on earth can Magnussen have been penalised?! By a stupid arse system intent on finding fault for a perfect demonstration of a racing incident. Raikkonen, if anything, was the one more at fault but even then, it was a nothing moment.

Magnussen takes the blame for incident but that's all it was, an incident, something that's been an aspect of motorsport, since its invention. A five-second stop-and-go penalty for the crash, and two penalty points on his licence is ridiculous. At this rate a driver will get penalised for overtaking another driver and not being on the racing line, when attempting the manoeuver....just saying.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113188

[chillibowl]

for sure you dont want to discourage drivers from taking chances and if KR's tire wasnt punctured then i dont think they would have given a penalty.

but that has to be balanced by common sense. far too many opportunities are already given to the following driver so im not sure im at the point where im willing to give a driver credit for 'attempting a maneuver'. either they pull it off or they dont and if they dont they risk a penalty...perhaps thats more of an incentive to get it right.

in fairness though before DRS it used to be the other way around. with so many rule changes over the past decade its hard to know where the line for racing incident in F1 is anymore imo.

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Whoever he is, I thought he was very good at it, better than most who've done the interviews.

I'm afraid I think it's bad news that he was quite good as it sets a ghastly precedent for random celebrities doing this job. I think I am right in saying that up to now it has always been someone with real F1 experience, past champions, drivers, team owners etc, the fact that Benedict did a good job does not change my opinion that having random "A" list celebs will often be dreadful.

[rwintle]

Originally Posted by Tucky

One thing I just remembered, when Ricciardo was being pushed back to his box after the tyre incident I swear I saw a cameraman running with the car filming it.

I'm pretty sure they're still only allowed to film from the pitwall, or has that been rescinded this year?

I also spotted a (still) photographer standing on the pit lane up next to the pit wall. Not behind or on it, but on the pit lane itself. That seems very unsafe to me and I don't recall ever seeing it before. Was definitely a fully credentialed photog, not a team member. Is this usual?

[chillibowl]

concerning DR's unsafe release, there seemed to be a number of issues that added up to what i though was a potentially dangerous scenario. i get that nothing bad happened but thats not really the standard is it?

unsafe release from not attaching the tire, making his way down pit lane with a wobbly tire (which i imagine he could see), pulling over in front of another team's pit, waiting for his team to collect him while hoping no one else needed the pitlane, his entire crew running down pitlane, some without helmets on i believe, getting pushed back and blocking more garages, and possibly then getting released with a broken front wing (i dont know how the wing broke i just assumed the team did it while trying to get his car back on the jacks). anyways it was a complete gong show.

i probably would have black flagged them the moment he parked in front of another teams garage. allowing them to go back out and salvage their race was very considerate imo.

i can understand why RB are unhappy, even agree with them on the sensor issue, but this was a well deserved penalty imo.

[S griffin]

Slighty OT, couldn't resist this. This is what the conspiracy theorists will say about Ricciardo's bad luck

Ricciardo is a driver who can challenge Vettel so he's left no stone unturned. In Australia, Seb retired early so he could muck around with the FIA fuel flow reader for Ricciardo's car, so he would be DQed. Onto Malaysia and Vettel has given Dan's crew a faulty air gun and taken bolts off the front wing and voila. Then after the race he alerts the stewards about a compulsory additional penalty, hence the ten place drop.

Don't worry, I am not one of those people who would believe this, I just wanted to lighten the mood!

BTW, I agree that Kevin shouldn't have been punished. The stewards might have well asked him not to come, if they feel they should punish him.

[321Go]

Vettel and Rosberg continue their post quali bickering during the post race interviews.

Rosberg: "I had a really good start, so I was happy about that because it's not so easy this year.
"The rear tyres are harder and we have more torque. So it's very difficult to get it right - but it felt great and got away well and then Sebastian… I thought he was going to put me right into the wall, but he stopped just before - so thank you for that!"

Vettel: "I had a similar experience last year..."

Rosberg: "That doesn't make it right to do it again!"


Two unhappy sausages then...

[321Go]

Massa vs Bottas team radio during the closing stages.


"Getting quicker."

[wnut]

Originally Posted by 321Go

Massa vs Bottas team radio during the closing stages.


"Getting quicker."

If I was Massa, I would never believe another word that came out of that jerk on the radios mouth!

Yes and there would be one hell of a discussion afterwards.

[321Go]

Rod Nelson, chief test and support engineer, said if Bottas couldn't catch and pass Button, Bottas would've had to let Massa past.

Nelson: “He did not do what we would have preferred him to do.

“Felipe was running fairly high temperatures on his engine and we were a little bit concerned about it, and Valtteri had much fresher tyres than Jenson did. We thought that it would be good to give Valtteri a go at getting past Jenson.”

“If he hadn’t achieved it within two or three laps, we would have swapped our drivers over again and everyone would have been happy.

“It’s not a big deal, every team does it. It’s not team orders, it’s a strategic decision based on the relative performance of both cars.”

So Bottas would've slowed down at the last corner and let Massa pass him??
Hmm..

[wnut]

Then the correct message would have been:

"Felipe, Bottas' tyres are fresher than yours let him have a go at Button, if he can't get through he will give you the place back!"

If Bottas doesn't get through and doesn't give the place back, he no longer has a drive at Williams!

Simple!

[Knowlesy]

Massa is a terrible team player tbh. He's been living off that Hockenheim debacle for near four years now.

[TheNo1F1Fan]

Originally Posted by 321Go

Massa vs Bottas team radio during the closing stages.


"Getting quicker."

The Williams drivers are faster than eachother IMO.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Massa is a terrible team player tbh. He's been living off that Hockenheim debacle for near four years now.

i suppose he does get painted as a victim/martyr with the close title lose, sad dad, the accident, the loyal team mate, and the radio message.

but is that something he trades on or is that something that his fans (of which i count myself) use to build him up with?

i cant recall another time where he blatantly disobeyed team orders so its a bit unfair to label him a bad team player imo. although its not too late for him to go all Barrichello on everyone.

[Mr Pink]

Originally Posted by TheNo1F1Fan

The Williams drivers are faster than eachother IMO.

Case closed!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by TheNo1F1Fan

The Williams drivers are faster than eachother IMO.

Makes total sense.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i suppose he does get painted as a victim/martyr with the close title lose, sad dad, the accident, the loyal team mate, and the radio message.

but is that something he trades on or is that something that his fans (of which i count myself) use to build him up with?

i cant recall another time where he blatantly disobeyed team orders so its a bit unfair to label him a bad team player imo. although its not too late for him to go all Barrichello on everyone.

As soon as Ferrari announced he was being dropped last season he openly stated he wouldn't bother helping Alonso. OK, logically it made sense, because Alonso had only a small chance of winning the title. But just have some dignity and do your best for your team, especially when Ferrari kept him for a season or two longer than they should have done, seemingly out of sympathy.

FWIW I like Felipe and smile when he does well, but I just think he tends to play the victim a bit much.