[Official] 2014 Formula 1 PETRONAS Malaysia Grand Prix

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by jsTrecu

Just read about Ric, poor boy, what a start...




2010 says hello

Should have won Bahrain but mechanical problem put him 4th, then retired in Australia when leading IIRC

Good memory, I had to look it up.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by 321Go

Here we go again. Daniel Ricciardo has been pinged by the Stewards for the next race in Bahrain. He will receive a 10 second stop go penalty during the race, and a ten spot grid penalty.


Looks like Daniel has inherited Webber's luck, car and pit crew.

The 10 second stop go I can understand. But a 10 place grid drop!????

The penalty nonsense has gone far too far and what is now happening is that the penalty process has reached the stage where its become abusive and unsporting.

It is ethically wrong in a sporting sense to have a judicial process where the penalties are disproportionate to the offence. The practice of imposing handicapping penalties to later events will ultimately destroy any sporting competition by reducing its appeal as a sporting competition.

It may seem ironic but what is happening between regulators and RBR be interpreted as a deliberate attempt to provoke what Dietrich Mateschitz alluded to when he suggested Red Bull may leave F1....

I don't think that will happen but then I believe RBR and DM may already be quite aware of what is going on.

[bjohnsonsmith]

He got the grid penalty for an 'Unsafe pit release'.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113189

[AngusJ]

The sound of those engines is abominable. What genius thought this was a good idea? I hate turbo chargers, V6 motors have a sour note. Pitiful....PITIFUL!!!!

[321Go]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

The penalty nonsense has gone far too far and what is now happening is that the penalty process has reached the stage where its become abusive and unsporting.

It is ethically wrong in a sporting sense to have a judicial process where the penalties are disproportionate to the offence. The practice of imposing handicapping penalties to later events will ultimately destroy any sporting competition by reducing its appeal as a sporting competition.

Agree 100%.

Two penalties for the one offence is just ridiculous. And considering DR had already served his 10 second stop / go penalty before the car was retired. Why does he have to serve it again in Bahrain??

Was it the fact that he did stop, but didn't go that has caused the FIA to deem it as "incorrectly serving his stop/go penalty"??

[Knowlesy]

I have been saying the penalties are ridiculous since 2004, and that they would only get worse.

Well, here we are.

[Bononi]

Pity, a whole weekend lost.

[GT6]

That is ridiculous but i think RB will appeal against that

[321Go]

Red Bull reprimanded for crew member not wearing head protection.

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

How cringey was Nico's podium interview btw with the Petronas angle?

But the bonus will still be in his bank account, long after the embarrassment is forgotten.

[brands]

If found guilty of unsafe release the car gets a 10 place grid drop at next race.

IF the car continues in the race after the unsafe release the car will also receive a 10 second stop and go.

Sporting regs
23.12
a)
It is the responsibility of the competitor to release his car from his garage or pit stop position only when it is safe to do so.
The competitor must also provide a means of clearly establishing, when being viewed from the front of the car, when that car was released.
b)
If a car is deemed to have been released in an unsafe condition during any practice
session, the stewards may drop the driver such number of grid positions as they
consider appropriate.

c)
If a car is deemed to have been released in an unsafe condition during a race the driver concerned will receive a ten grid place penalty at the driver’s next Event. However, if any car released in an unsafe condition is able to resume the rac
e a penalty under Article 16.3(c) will also be imposed on the driver concerned.

[Tucky]

One thing I just remembered, when Ricciardo was being pushed back to his box after the tyre incident I swear I saw a cameraman running with the car filming it.

I'm pretty sure they're still only allowed to film from the pitwall, or has that been rescinded this year?

[Tucky]

Originally Posted by brands

If found guilty of unsafe release the car gets a 10 place grid drop at next race.

IF the car continues in the race after the unsafe release the car will also receive a 10 second stop and go.

He stopped in the pit lane when he realised the tyre wasn't seated correctly so he shouldn't have gotten that stop and go if the FIA followed the rules. The FIA really need to get their act together

[321Go]

On Bottas v Massa, looks like what I said here was true after all.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by Tucky

One thing I just remembered, when Ricciardo was being pushed back to his box after the tyre incident I swear I saw a cameraman running with the car filming it.

I'm pretty sure they're still only allowed to film from the pitwall, or has that been rescinded this year?

Probably a Red Bull cameraman. They don't do rules in Milton Keynes.

[brands]

Originally Posted by Tucky

He stopped in the pit lane when he realised the tyre wasn't seated correctly so he shouldn't have gotten that stop and go if the FIA followed the rules. The FIA really need to get their act together

Even Horner won't get a way with that excuse

[Tucky]

You say that, but how is giving him two penalties for the same infraction fair?

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Tucky

You say that, but how is giving him two penalties for the same infraction fair?

Not fair or reasonable but it is what F1 has become.

Sporting rules are not criminal law. They are there to provide for a fair and just sporting competition, or to cover situations relative to competitor safety. But if applied in an unsporting way can be so heavy handed they become unjust and abusive and end up destroying the sense of fair play and fair competition.

There are reasons for the rules being there but the stewards have some discretion as you read the rules , for their application. But if that discretion is not used to produce a fair and reasonable penalty it becomes unfair and unreasonable, that is, abusive , and beyond the purpose for which it put their in the first place

If you had a situation on a football field where a player committed an offence worthy of a 10 minute sin bin but had twisted his ankle in the process and had to leave the field it would be ridiculous to have him removed from the field as a team penalty at the start of the next game... But that is effectively what is happening in some motorsport.

These rules could be applied to club FF or a production car race in local or national motorsport in the UK but if you applied them like this you would destroy the fabric of UK motorsport.
In the same way they will destroy any sense of F1 being a fair and reasonable sporting competition.

It is an absolute nonsense.

[Knowlesy]

The people want to see penalties though. Someone must be to blame and, therefore, pay a penalty!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

The people want to see penalties though. Someone must be to blame and, therefore, pay a penalty!

Do people want to see penalties? I certainly don't, not for the sake of it anyway. If there has been an infraction of the rules, it should be in proportion to the whatever the offence is.

[Mike Harte]

From what I have read, these were for two infringements whaich happended to arise from one incident.

One was for an unsafe release from the pit-box because a component was loose, and the second was for the fact that the usafe release was because the wheel was not attached properly.

There is a draconian penalty for the second due to the potential damage or injury that can result from a wheel becoming detatched. The teams are fully aware of the penalties, but in their quest to reduce the pit times, they have to accept that it will sometimes go wrong.

The FIA introduced this punishment to stop the teams not taking care when attaching the wheels, and in theory, there is supposed to be some sort of locking mechanism on all the centre-nuts that can only be operated if the wheel has been attached correctly. There is no point in just fining the team for the failure, because in reality it is meaningless, but by punishing the driver - logically it is the car that is being punished - it is meaningful punishment.

[Adam43]

Good point. At the time there was a backlash to the bouncing wheel in the pitlane and it was felt that there should be harsh penalties. The FIA responded to what people wanted and it is now being applied.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

From what I have read, these were for two infringements whaich happended to arise from one incident.

One was for an unsafe release from the pit-box because a component was loose, and the second was for the fact that the usafe release was because the wheel was not attached properly.

There is a draconian penalty for the second due to the potential damage or injury that can result from a wheel becoming detatched. The teams are fully aware of the penalties, but in their quest to reduce the pit times, they have to accept that it will sometimes go wrong.

The FIA introduced this punishment to stop the teams not taking care when attaching the wheels, and in theory, there is supposed to be some sort of locking mechanism on all the centre-nuts that can only be operated if the wheel has been attached correctly. There is no point in just fining the team for the failure, because in reality it is meaningless, but by punishing the driver - logically it is the car that is being punished - it is meaningful punishment.

But in this case that is not what happened, and to make the driver culpable is a nonsense.. The rule is there to prevent an accident. In this case the driver when he realised what had happened redeemed the situation but was ultimately still penalised for it. My view is that way the rule is applied is abusive.
The loss of time itself by having to be pulled back to his pit and have it redone was driver penalty enough.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

From what I have read, these were for two infringements whaich happended to arise from one incident.

One was for an unsafe release from the pit-box because a component was loose, and the second was for the fact that the usafe release was because the wheel was not attached properly.

There is a draconian penalty for the second due to the potential damage or injury that can result from a wheel becoming detatched. The teams are fully aware of the penalties, but in their quest to reduce the pit times, they have to accept that it will sometimes go wrong.

The FIA introduced this punishment to stop the teams not taking care when attaching the wheels, and in theory, there is supposed to be some sort of locking mechanism on all the centre-nuts that can only be operated if the wheel has been attached correctly. There is no point in just fining the team for the failure, because in reality it is meaningless, but by punishing the driver - logically it is the car that is being punished - it is meaningful punishment.

I think in this instance the team, rather than the driver should be held responsible. I don't see why Ricciardo should be punished twice, it's overkill.

[Zico]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

But in this case that is not what happened, and to make the driver culpable is a nonsense.. The rule is there to prevent an accident. In this case the driver when he realised what had happened redeemed the situation but was ultimately still penalised for it. My view is that way the rule is applied is abusive.
The loss of time itself by having to be pulled back to his pit and have it redone was driver penalty enough.

+1

Totally agree!