What is the most powerfull engine in F1?

[Robin Plummer]

2003 BMW approx 850bhp??

Also if F1 still ran to 1994 regs i.e. 3.5 engines and up to V12's and the rev limits (19000RPM) of today would we be talking the whole grid with 1000bhp+?

....and when you have given that a load of thought imagine a Honda 1.5 V6 bi-turbo of 1986 or BMW redesigned with todays valve technology and light weight materals and know how and current computer engine managment running 4 bar boost!!!!

SCARY POWER THEN 900-1000BHP OR (650BHP A LITRE!).....
2003 TECHNOLOGY...???????????????I'D HATE TO THINK HOW MUCH MORE POWER!

[Spudgun]

Back in the late 80's, in the turbo days, engines in qualifying trim had 1300+ bhp.

Hence why Keke Rosberg's record of fastest average lap speed around Silverstone stood for 17 years.

The late '70's GT cars had 1000 bhp at their disposal. It would be interesting to see a current F1 engine turbocharged, even if it was just for a demonstration.

[Sodemo]

I think we are closer to 1000BHP than you think.

This years BMW plant is rumoured to have 910BHP, not 850.
When BMW returned in 2000, they made a reliable but pretty modest engine for Williams, then in 2001 they made a monster of an engine, with reportably 865BHP.

The 2002 unit ran up to 890BHP, and by Monza they had ran the 2003 engine.

Though now it seems Ferrari and Mclaren have caught up, though what wing levels people are running does affect the top line speed.

[JonesF1]

Originally posted by Robin Plummer
2003 BMW approx 850bhp??

Must be a bad year for BMW.

[Jukebox]

It's no use to have a very powerful engine if not combined with a very good chassis and aero package....eventhough engines are the main ingredient for success, great aero package might just give an added leverage over the others even for a second a lap.

[GTRMagic]

Whack a BMW engine in a Renault chassis, if the packaging fits of course, and arguably you wouldnt see which way it went

[steve nielsen]

Indeed: Ferrari and Mclaren would'nt know what happened if that combination drove round on track............

[avsfan733]

I don't think enough credit is given to the engine in the back of the Ferrari. They supposedly were equal with BMW last year in horsepower and where much more reliable. I can't believe that a great chassis is all they have. If it was then wouldn't they be equal with Renault and Renault have run away with the championship already?

[kmchow]

People have talked about equalization and making the racing more competitive. The first place I would have suggested would be to start with limiting engine development rather than transmission and electronics? I'm assuming engine development has more money being put into it than the rest? What do you think??

[Stevespurr]

i think that all teams and engine manufactures should be given a free reign and be allowed to develop a package that will win races for them so long as they stick to car safty they should be allowed to do what they want we go to watch F1 and other motor sports to watch cars race not to have limits put on them

[Ben Culverhouse]

Porsche used to weld the head to the block in the high boost motors...................

[Spudgun]

Originally posted by Ben Culverhouse
Porsche used to weld the head to the block in the high boost motors...................

Genius!

I know in top-fuel drag-racing they put steel bands around the block to hold the things together.

Makes you think though, all that power through the wheels is contained by just a few bolts holding the cylinder head on.

[ASCII Man]

Head welded to the block?
How do they replace the pistons/crankshafts then??

[Spudgun]

Originally posted by ®îjñtjûh
Head welded to the block?
How do they replace the pistons/crankshafts then??

You can do it by taking off the bottom of the crank-case. Changing the valves might be a bit tricky though.

It just depends whether they had the budget to bin them for new engines.

[neilap]

I used to think Ferrari had really strong motors but every year it goes into a Sauber it becomes less than inspiring. Its the general assumption that BMW has the strongest motor in F1 at this time. However, the gap seems to have narrowed quite a bit in the past two years. Ferrari has the most efficient car, the power is enough and the chassis is outstanding.

[Spudgun]

Originally posted by neilap
I used to think Ferrari had really strong motors but every year it goes into a Sauber it becomes less than inspiring. Its the general assumption that BMW has the strongest motor in F1 at this time. However, the gap seems to have narrowed quite a bit in the past two years. Ferrari has the most efficient car, the power is enough and the chassis is outstanding.

But Sauber are using last year's engines, so they are bound to be a little down.

Even though Ferrari have been using last year's car, I bet there's a few mods on the engine that Sauber haven't got.

[JonesF1]

Not only are the Sauber engines older but Ferrari used to (still does?) detune them so Sauber never had ultra-competitive HP, just enough to stay top 6 with some good reliability. Also Ferrari charges $25m per year and for a small team like Sauber thats a lot of money that wont be spent on the chassis or big shot engineers.

But anyway Frentzen has 7 points so far so Go Sauber!

[senna12]

The rumour surrounding the new Mercedes powerplant in the new McLaren is 930 hp! Perhaps the delays in the launch can be partly down to the reliability issues that always surround cutting edge technology.

Or maybe it's just a rumour.

[Sodemo]

I too heard that 930BHP figure, BMW better get working...

[mmciau]

4 Cylinder Meyer-Drake (Offenhauser) engines in Midget, Oval Roadsters and Indianapolis 500 Roadsters for years were "non-detachable DOHC heads". Valve replacement with special tools up through the bore after the crankcase and crankshaft had been removed.

[Logrence]

When Ralf and Michael were fighting at Imola last weekend, you could see on the in-car shots on Michael's machine that the Williams had that much more grunt behind it - I still think that Ferrari have a long way to go in all areas of their design - it's not that they particularly have the best aspect in any area of the car - there are better chassis, engines, blah blah blah - but they've put the best package together - and that's what's important.

If the Mercedes does have 930hp though - god help the rest of the grid!

[TeddyG]

Yeah 850bhp for BMW must be way off the mark even Honda have set a target of at least 900bhp at some point this season.

[neilap]

I think it is difficult to "see" the difference in power between the cars. If its true that Ferrari detunes the motors before Sauber gets it then that explains my observations. In one year the power gains are not that much that a front running motor will suddenly become a midfield motor. I know Sauber does not have the same chassis the Ferrari had. I was one that suspected the intigration of the Ferrari would be difficult. I still think the motor is a weakness though.

Also, I seriously doubt the Mercedes will be 930 hp. That would be about a 100hp jump by Illmor in a little over a year. While other companies like Honda, BMW, and Ferrari are getting maybe 20 hp over their previous best that number begins to seem impossible. I have to see it to believe it. 900 maybe, 930, I doubt it. Ditto for the new Renault!! No one gets 100hp without some major breakthrough or complete change in design.

[Snrub]

Straight speed can also have to do with aero design/setup. There doesn't seem to be the gap like last year when it was clear Mercedes was down on power, or 2001 when it was clear BMW was up on power.

[Sodemo]

Thats what I was saying earlier, cars that have good grip mechanically do not need to run big wings to keep the car on the ground. This in turn will give them better top speed as less wing = more top end speed.