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11 Jan 2021, 11:58 (Ref:4028601) | #1 | ||
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Not something that tends to affect me as I have only raced at Spa once, although I was hoping to do so again at some point in the future. Does seem to state more expense and paper work for those wanting to race in Europe:
https://www.motorsportuk.org/movemen...csSm04FaK_baag |
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Born in the Midlands, made in the Royal Navy |
11 Jan 2021, 12:38 (Ref:4028602) | #2 | ||
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Will a carnet really be needed if the race car in the trailer is actually road registered, taxed and insured?
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11 Jan 2021, 12:58 (Ref:4028603) | #3 | ||
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There is a lot of chat about this on various race/ rally related forums and fb sites in the last few hours and the consensus of opinion so far seems to be, yes. Although CSCC have suggested that they are trying to work on a compromise with their Belgian colleagues for cars with a V5, but no guarantees. Seems to me, however, that “compromises” will need to be worked out at MUK-Govt level rather than individual car club level.
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Born in the Midlands, made in the Royal Navy |
11 Jan 2021, 13:39 (Ref:4028604) | #4 | |||
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Quote:
I understand that trailers may need ID documents and insurance also. |
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All roads lead to Spa. |
11 Jan 2021, 13:51 (Ref:4028605) | #5 | ||
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Born in the Midlands, made in the Royal Navy |
11 Jan 2021, 15:29 (Ref:4028606) | #6 | ||
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Quote:
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...nd-cpd-carnets This one seems to say that carnets will not be needed for registered cars through most of Europe . |
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11 Jan 2021, 15:35 (Ref:4028607) | #7 | |||
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11 Jan 2021, 16:00 (Ref:4028608) | #8 | ||
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Quote:
That was how it was explained to me many years ago by C&E when I was doing events over Europe using Carnets . AS far as I can make out , that still applies & even if it is on a trailer , does not need a Carnet . And the Trailer does not need to be registered if it is private use . |
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11 Jan 2021, 19:40 (Ref:4028609) | #9 | |||
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Quote:
"The Port of Dover and Eurotunnel cannot process ATA Carnets, so find out where to go when moving goods with an ATA Carnet". ATA Carnets will usually be processed at the port. However, from 1 January 2021, if you’re moving goods with an ATA Carnet through the Port of Dover or Eurotunnel, you will need to go to a government inland border facility to process your ATA Carnet. from gov.uk https://www.gov.uk/guidance/moving-g...-an-ata-carnet |
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All roads lead to Spa. |
11 Jan 2021, 20:42 (Ref:4028610) | #10 | ||
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Quote:
So it looks like you might have to have an ATA & get it signed out at Ashford , [ or one of the other places shown on your link] . |
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12 Jan 2021, 01:06 (Ref:4028611) | #11 | ||
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The view of someone who has seen & stamped many a carnet over the years.
I'm sure we've been over this before, but in general the CPD carnet is intended for use by people travelling with their own personal (road) vehicle for pleasure. The ATA carnet is for goods being used for exhibition, show, testing, etc. As such, any race car either on a trailer or being driven to be used at a race meeting would be considered as being shown or exhibited and should be covered by an ATA carnet. |
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I haven't got a life, just an anorak. |
12 Jan 2021, 04:08 (Ref:4028612) | #12 | |||
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“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
12 Jan 2021, 07:38 (Ref:4028613) | #13 | ||
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This is starting to sound like a right nightmare. I've an allergy to paperwork, is it as onerous as it sounds? Plus the nominal fee sounds somewhat more than nominal.
I've also been reading the reports about a trucker's picnic being confiscated at the Dutch border How would I manage without my tinnies of old and filthy, I couldn't possibly drink Eurofizz stuff. Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk |
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Midgetman - known as Max Tyler to the world. MaxAttaq! |
12 Jan 2021, 07:50 (Ref:4028614) | #14 | |||
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Quote:
Many thanks for your most helpful input on this. Seems I'll be reviving old skills from my first job in shipping in 1960's and looking for a change of ASN. Small price to pay for 'taking back control'. |
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All roads lead to Spa. |
12 Jan 2021, 08:09 (Ref:4028615) | #15 | |||
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But prepare yourself to an increase in costs and time spent. |
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Celui qui est parti de rien pour arriver nulle part,n'a de merci a dire a personne.Pour ceux qui vont chercher midi a quatorze heures, la minute de Vérité risque de se faire attendre longtemps. |
12 Jan 2021, 08:49 (Ref:4028616) | #16 | |||
The Honourable Mallett
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Quote:
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I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead. |
12 Jan 2021, 10:51 (Ref:4028617) | #17 | ||
The Honourable Mallett
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I agree, although the carnet thing, not unexpected, does appear to be excessively costly. I wonder if organisers such as PA, Roadbook etc. Might lobby the Customs to reduce costs for amateurs. Just think of the impact on the 6hrs.
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12 Jan 2021, 10:52 (Ref:4028618) | #18 | ||
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One bit of the latest MSUK announcement caught my eye. The carnets are issued at a 'special price' of 'only' £240 by the Birmingham Chamber of Commerce. Then it says you fill in all the information online and the CoC print it, authorise it and post it out the following day. So what exactly are they doing for their fee? Providing some stationery and stamping it?
I'd still like to know on what basis MSUK think a carnet is required for non-professionals - all they say is 'Following advice, Motorsport UK understands that an ATA Carnet will be required to temporarily move motorsport vehicles and equipment across the border.' All very vague and non-specific, sounding exactly like more Project Fear. Advice from whom? And what question was asked? The guidance by the Birmingham CoC expert document states : (link: https://www.greaterbirminghamchamber...e-jan-2021.pdf) There are three separate conventions that we can issue carnets for these are as follows: •A) Commercial Samples–When goods are going out of the UK to be shown to potential customers to generate sales. •B) International Trade Fairs/show/Exhibitions–When goods are going out for the purpose of being exhibited in a trade show. This can include the items themselves as well as exhibition stands •C) Professional Equipment–When goods are going out for the purpose of fulfilling their function for such things as dry weather testing, road testing etc; none of which sound anything like an amateur taking sports equipment on holiday. What we do is not that different from taking a tennis racquet and some spare balls abroad, or a rucksack full of climbing equipment for personal use. |
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a salary slave no more... |
12 Jan 2021, 11:02 (Ref:4028619) | #19 | ||
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The costs are not set by Customs Peter - it's the cartel of Chambers of Commerce setting the fees for issuing and authorising the carnets, and providing the insurance bond against failure to re-export from the destination country. IF a carnet is indeed required - and I fail to be convinced on the evidence from MSUK so far - then there should be nothing to stop an individual creating the forms from templates and having them stamped up by their local CoC for a small fee, 25 quid would seem reasonable for 5 minutes work. On the same basis, as Aviva have the insurance bond scheme in place then the individual should be able to deal with them directly for the cover.
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a salary slave no more... |
12 Jan 2021, 11:11 (Ref:4028620) | #20 | |||
The Honourable Mallett
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Quote:
As to the sandwich thing, someone just likened it to fining people for walking with a cup of coffee. Over zealous was the phrase used. |
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12 Jan 2021, 11:17 (Ref:4028621) | #21 | ||
The Scarlet Pimpernel
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Answer is to race road registered vehicles!
No carnet Reason for us playing with those Pre War things |
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12 Jan 2021, 11:26 (Ref:4028622) | #22 | ||
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Quote:
https://www.gov.uk/taking-goods-out-uk-temporarily Click on [If you do not use a carnet]. It appears you can use a " Duplicate List ", instead of having to pay for a carnet . Not very obvious how it is done , probably because they would rather have everybody paying , but this is well worth checking out if you only go abroad a few times . |
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12 Jan 2021, 11:38 (Ref:4028623) | #23 | ||
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You may read this, registered motor sport vehicles, private or commercial, it applies.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/apply-fo...net-will-cover |
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The good, the bad, the ugly, it's the law. |
12 Jan 2021, 11:59 (Ref:4028624) | #24 | |||
The Honourable Mallett
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Next question, do we need a carnet for the tow car or indeed any car we want to use touring Europe? |
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12 Jan 2021, 12:26 (Ref:4028625) | #25 | |||
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Quote:
>>>>>>>I'd still like to know on what basis MSUK think a carnet is required for non-professionals - all they say is 'Following advice, Motorsport UK understands that an ATA Carnet will be required to temporarily move motorsport vehicles and equipment across the border.' Because the MSUK can't think beyond commercial race teams, privateers racing for fun don't cross their minds. We see it all the time in karting. |
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Midgetman - known as Max Tyler to the world. MaxAttaq! |
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