Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Classic Cars Monthly Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Historic Racing & Motorsport History > Historic Racing Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 18 Apr 2012, 16:12 (Ref:3061556)   #51
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,729
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Actually a lot of the touring car boys now multi point the cage to the strut tops etc. So you can see the point. Also what if the rear stays are fixed to a bulkhead but the straight line distance is 100mm or less from a suspension mount?
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead.
Quote
Old 24 Apr 2012, 14:04 (Ref:3064903)   #52
pomracer
Racer
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 122
pomracer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo Landman View Post
There's another little gem hidden in 5.13.5 that could spell trouble for some folks running period F-G2 cars: it's no longer permitted to attach roll cage tubes to the chassis within 10 cm of a suspension pick-up point.
Yes there are many little gems in the ROPS section which many people appear to be still unaware of ....some already discussed at length elsewhere on this forum.

Suggest that everyone looks closely at the new requirements within Appendix K as published January 2012, and take action now.

In fact the actual wording in 5.13.5 which I think the above quote refers to reads as follows:-
"Tubes through the bulkheads or attached to the body/chassis within 10cm of suspension pickup points are not permitted unless this is a period or homologated specification" (my italics and bold)

This puts a different slant on things I think.

However any compliance problems which are insurmountable are covered,
ultimately , in 5.13.5 para (g) which states:
"cars not able to fully comply with the above requirements may be granted a special dispensation subject to approval by HMSC.Confirmation of the dispensation must be appended to the car's HTP"

Anyone who gets to this stage should join the back of the queue soon.....
pomracer is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Nov 2012, 09:41 (Ref:3165421)   #53
p261brm
Veteran
 
p261brm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
England
Shropshire & Oura
Posts: 1,359
p261brm should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridp261brm should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by pomracer View Post
Anyone who gets to this stage should join the back of the queue soon.....
Men (or Womem) in white coats again?......
p261brm is offline  
__________________
I'm supposed to respect my elders, but it's getting harder and harder for me to find one now.
Quote
Old 12 Nov 2012, 13:41 (Ref:3165497)   #54
terence
Veteran
 
terence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Germany
Nordschleife
Posts: 12,853
terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by pomracer View Post
Yes there are many little gems in the ROPS section which many people appear to be still unaware of ....some already discussed at length elsewhere on this forum.

Suggest that everyone looks closely at the new requirements within Appendix K as published January 2012, and take action now.

In fact the actual wording in 5.13.5 which I think the above quote refers to reads as follows:-
"Tubes through the bulkheads or attached to the body/chassis within 10cm of suspension pickup points are not permitted unless this is a period or homologated specification" (my italics and bold)

This puts a different slant on things I think.

However any compliance problems which are insurmountable are covered,
ultimately , in 5.13.5 para (g) which states:
"cars not able to fully comply with the above requirements may be granted a special dispensation subject to approval by HMSC.Confirmation of the dispensation must be appended to the car's HTP"

Anyone who gets to this stage should join the back of the queue soon.....

HMSC being absolutely nothing to do with my company.

HONEST!
terence is offline  
__________________
Living the dream,Chief instruktor and racing on the worlds best circuits-The Nordschleife and Spa.Getting to drive the worlds best cars-someone has to do it, so glad its me.
Quote
Old 16 Nov 2012, 16:44 (Ref:3167132)   #55
tazracer
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 47
tazracer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hi, all A mate of mine is looking to put an appendix K mustang together and already has a suitable base car. We were wandering around a recent appendix K meeeting at silverstone and noticed a mustang running adjustable top mounts on the front suspension. I didnt think this was allowed, have I misinterpreted something
tazracer is offline  
__________________
Racing is life : Everything else is just finding the money!!
Quote
Old 16 Nov 2012, 18:17 (Ref:3167167)   #56
jimasaurus
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3
jimasaurus should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hi Tazracer.
I think the recent silverstone meeting was either the Walter Hayes or the HSCC meetings. There are classes that can run fully adjustable front suspension ie HRSR.
I hope this helps.
Jim.
jimasaurus is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Nov 2012, 17:06 (Ref:3167557)   #57
Relentless
Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2
Relentless should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by tazracer View Post
We were wandering around a recent appendix K meeeting at silverstone and noticed a mustang running adjustable top mounts on the front suspension.
No tazracer you are interpreting Appendix K correctly. Adjustable top mounts are a prohibited modification. If your friend used them on his Mustang then he would not get a FIA passport and therefore would not be able race in the HSCC Touring Car Championship. Are you sure you were at an Appendix K meeting not just a practice day as all entrants are closely scutineered.
Relentless is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Nov 2012, 19:07 (Ref:3167584)   #58
jimasaurus
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3
jimasaurus should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
[QUOTE=Relentless;3167557]No tazracer you are interpreting Appendix K correctly. Adjustable top mounts are a prohibited modification. If your friend used them on his Mustang then he would not get a FIA passport and therefore would not be able race in the HSCC Touring Car Championship. Are you sure you were at an Appendix K meeting not just a practice day as all entrants are closely scutineered.[/QUOTE

You seem very sure relentless. Are you part of the HSCC or do you race?
jimasaurus is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Nov 2012, 06:04 (Ref:3167735)   #59
terence
Veteran
 
terence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Germany
Nordschleife
Posts: 12,853
terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
What if they are period alterations? Same could apply to many different makes,Ford,BMW for instance.
terence is offline  
__________________
Living the dream,Chief instruktor and racing on the worlds best circuits-The Nordschleife and Spa.Getting to drive the worlds best cars-someone has to do it, so glad its me.
Quote
Old 18 Nov 2012, 08:28 (Ref:3167766)   #60
Mike Bell
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 14,830
Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tazracer View Post
We were wandering around a recent appendix K meeeting at silverstone and noticed a mustang running adjustable top mounts on the front suspension. I didnt think this was allowed, have I misinterpreted something
Hi tazracer, quick search on t'internet suggests the car in your pic races with HSCC in ByBox series. The regs for this are on HSCC website and allow more freedom than AppK, although indeed there is a class for that within the series. As stated, adjustable suspension mounting points are outside the regs for AppK Production Touring Cars unless fitted as standard in period. Mustang front suspension is wishbone type, so assume your reference to top mounts is towards the spring saddles pictured, not the mounting point on inner wing?

FYI, Quote from HSCC regs-
"It is intended that the technical regulations contained herein represent a qualified and clarified interpretation of the FIA Special
Touring Cars Group 5 Definitions and Specifications, as contained in the RAC handbook for the season 1966 chapter vii, pages
251 & 252."


Mike Bell is offline  
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein)
Quote
Old 18 Nov 2012, 09:06 (Ref:3167781)   #61
terence
Veteran
 
terence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Germany
Nordschleife
Posts: 12,853
terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid

But being "fia", anything goes,doesn,t it?
terence is offline  
__________________
Living the dream,Chief instruktor and racing on the worlds best circuits-The Nordschleife and Spa.Getting to drive the worlds best cars-someone has to do it, so glad its me.
Quote
Old 18 Nov 2012, 12:02 (Ref:3167866)   #62
Mike Bell
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 14,830
Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by terence bower View Post
But being "fia", anything goes,doesn,t it?
Not like you to be cynical, Terry!

After reading that bit out of the HSCC regs did wonder how many have access to the '1966 RAC handbook'!

Mike Bell is offline  
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein)
Quote
Old 18 Nov 2012, 13:08 (Ref:3167889)   #63
Relentless
Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2
Relentless should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I used to race but now write.

If you look at the HSCC Historic Touring Car Championship for Appendix K and HRSR Cars 2012 Regulations you will see under Technical Regulation 5(8).2 Prohibited modifications: “that suspension components must be of original design ... The original pickup points and mountings must be used. The original spring system must be retained though the spring rate itself is free. One spring may be replaced by another but not by a spring of different type. The common types are leaf, coil and torsion bar.”

Further Regulation 5(2): “If a model of car is Homologated then that car may use parts that appear within its Homologation papers up to December 31st 1966, and it may then be prepared to these regulations.”
Relentless is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Nov 2012, 14:19 (Ref:3167911)   #64
Robyn Slater
Veteran
 
Robyn Slater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
England
Sudbury Suffolk
Posts: 515
Robyn Slater should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
For the record Warrens mustang runs as app.K

Whether those parts should be there i know not.
Robyn Slater is offline  
__________________
"Hot rods" rule.
Quote
Old 18 Nov 2012, 17:08 (Ref:3167982)   #65
terence
Veteran
 
terence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Germany
Nordschleife
Posts: 12,853
terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I doubt very much that the parts in question should not be where they are.HSCC are possibly the most policed clubs there are.
terence is offline  
__________________
Living the dream,Chief instruktor and racing on the worlds best circuits-The Nordschleife and Spa.Getting to drive the worlds best cars-someone has to do it, so glad its me.
Quote
Old 18 Nov 2012, 22:42 (Ref:3168145)   #66
Al Weyman
Veteran
 
Al Weyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
England
South of Watford (just)
Posts: 14,699
Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!
I thought the standard Mustang mod was the 'Shelby' mod where the upper wishbone mounting point to the fletch panel is lowered by an inch, I bet every race Mustang out there runs like that as its been done on these cars for years. Would that be illegal according to FIA?
Al Weyman is offline  
__________________
You can't polish a turd but you sure can sprinkle it with glitter!
Quote
Old 19 Nov 2012, 10:57 (Ref:3168409)   #67
morninggents
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
England
Up north, near York.
Posts: 2,932
morninggents should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Al, my take is that it would not be allowed. If you look at the very first post in this thread Article 6.3.1 specifically prohibits the changing of mounting points.
morninggents is online now  
Quote
Old 19 Nov 2012, 11:45 (Ref:3168424)   #68
Clive Brown
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
England
North-west Kent
Posts: 1,393
Clive Brown should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
But is it not permissible if it can be proven that this modification was done in period?
Clive Brown is offline  
__________________
Columnated ruins domino
Quote
Old 19 Nov 2012, 13:05 (Ref:3168472)   #69
zefarelly
Veteran
 
zefarelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
European Union
Posts: 9,718
zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!
easiest thing to do would be modify the homologation forms . . . . I've seen a few that literally have ( for example) 'piddly SU carbs' scribbled out and 'bloody great big webers' written over the top in biro!
zefarelly is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Nov 2012, 13:53 (Ref:3168517)   #70
Al Weyman
Veteran
 
Al Weyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
England
South of Watford (just)
Posts: 14,699
Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!
On the Mustang I believe the mod was standard on the Shelby cars and may well have been homologated I don't know but if so i would have thought the mod on a Notchback was doubtful from the factory. Its the same as the Guilstrad mod on the 1st gen Camaro (not required on the 2nd gen like I race as the factory did it for you) but I bet most of the 'legal' cars have this modification. Its all about lowering the top wishbone inner mounting points and is not easy on the camaro as the frame has to be cut and shut. The object is to give more camber gain during cornering.
Al Weyman is offline  
__________________
You can't polish a turd but you sure can sprinkle it with glitter!
Quote
Old 19 Nov 2012, 14:15 (Ref:3168528)   #71
morninggents
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
England
Up north, near York.
Posts: 2,932
morninggents should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive Brown View Post
But is it not permissible if it can be proven that this modification was done in period?
Was it done legally in period? I don't see why cheating in period should make a mod legal today.
morninggents is online now  
Quote
Old 19 Nov 2012, 17:37 (Ref:3168626)   #72
zefarelly
Veteran
 
zefarelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
European Union
Posts: 9,718
zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!
I agree Peter, but who can prove one way or another. buying opinions from skint reiree's was fashionable at one point . . .
zefarelly is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Nov 2012, 18:52 (Ref:3168659)   #73
morninggents
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
England
Up north, near York.
Posts: 2,932
morninggents should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I don't think it has to be proven, Joe. The mods allowed for App K cars are either on the homologation papers or contained in the overriding App K regs as shown in post 1 of this thread. Surely it is up to the entrant of any car running to App K regs to ensure that their car complies. If they believe ABC or XYZ applied in period they must prove it. It is not enough to say that this or that person/company cheated in period and, therefore, that is OK today.
It bloody well isn't!

Sorry for the language - it get's me a bit hot under the collar.

Last edited by morninggents; 19 Nov 2012 at 18:55. Reason: Language!
morninggents is online now  
Quote
Old 19 Nov 2012, 19:02 (Ref:3168660)   #74
Clive Brown
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
England
North-west Kent
Posts: 1,393
Clive Brown should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by morninggents View Post
Was it done legally in period? I don't see why cheating in period should make a mod legal today.
I meant if it was permissible in period, not if similar cheating occurred in period!
Clive Brown is offline  
__________________
Columnated ruins domino
Quote
Old 19 Nov 2012, 20:06 (Ref:3168704)   #75
morninggents
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
England
Up north, near York.
Posts: 2,932
morninggents should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive Brown View Post
I meant if it was permissible in period, not if similar cheating occurred in period!
If it was permissible in period then it is up to entrants to prove it, surely.
morninggents is online now  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
01.01.02 - An Important Day Aysedasi Sportscar & GT Racing 11 5 Jan 2002 22:42
Callaway 01 pink69 Sportscar & GT Racing 6 12 Apr 2001 23:27


All times are GMT. The time now is 13:10.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.