If you could re-invent RallyCross, what would you change?

[Greg Cozier]

Winnie, excellent post.

Regarding the introductory class, it amazes me how many BMWs are crushed every year when they contain so much driver enjoyment (big engine, RWD) straight from the factory. Surely a class for cars with bolt-in cages built to FIA GpN with 2WD and no turbos would see a bunch of small hatchbacks mixing it up with Bimmas and old 911s?

[leonidas]

Originally Posted by schanche

2013 provisionaly sorted already early enough for folk to plan there particapation.
http://www.rallycrossuk.com/documents/BRC01.pdf

So basically they are going to ignore everyone and stick with the same failing class structure and age restrictions? (10 classes for about 60 regular championship participants).

I don't know why we even bother commenting as no-one is listening.

[AndyS]

Originally Posted by winnie

I started watching rallycross about 25 years ago at the brands gp when schanche first had his 4x4 escort and there is no comparision from that to modern rallycross, which to be honest i haven't watched for at least five years. I can watch 20 minutes on tv, but then generally turn over.

I can't even start to explain where it has gone wrong. The modern cars are so boring to watch, and i include the current super cars. The modern super car has no charactor, they all look the same, they all sound the same, they all accelerate the same, they all brake the same, they all turn in the same - no wonder there is so much contact.

One comment on the Joker Lap - get rid of it. Rallycross is all about action, close racing. The joker lap splits the cars up, it lets a faster driver get past a slower driver without the spectator seeing any over taking.

Rallycross only needs 5 classes.

Class 1 - any body shell, 4 wheel drive, any engine any size in original position, turbo if you want and different weight limit for engine size / turbo etc.

Class 2 - any body shell, 2 wheel drive, any engine in original position over 1600cc, no turbo, min weight limit say 1000kg

Class 3 - any body shell, 2 wheel drive up to 1600, no turbo, maybee allow bike engines, maybee allow mid engine, min weight say 750kg

Class 4 - introductory class, maybee stock hatch or one make series, but only one class

Class 5 - historic rallycross / rally cars, say pre 1990. Strictly no contact and run in groups of 4.

Thats it, no other classes, no buggies and no nippers. I would proberbly race class 2 and 3 together as people want to see david v golieth type races.

End of year gp - all cars in together, prize for overall winner and best 2wd.

The only other thing it needs is bigger penalties / bans for contact. Most of the cars are run on a tight budget, and body repairs cost a fortune.

I think british rallycross needs to be promoted by some-one who does not own a circuit and does not compete in rallycross. Rounds need to be split north, south and midlands.

Don't think most competitiors are bothered about having to pay for it to be on tv. If the product is good, the tv will pay to film it.

Excellent post, sums it up perfectly for me.

[Westysprinter]

Originally Posted by AndyS

Excellent post, sums it up perfectly for me.

Doesnt it just - think nippers should still be allowed though

[Janneman]

Originally Posted by winnie

I started watching rallycross about 25 years ago at the brands gp when schanche first had his 4x4 escort and there is no comparision from that to modern rallycross, which to be honest i haven't watched for at least five years. I can watch 20 minutes on tv, but then generally turn over.

I can't even start to explain where it has gone wrong. The modern cars are so boring to watch, and i include the current super cars. The modern super car has no charactor, they all look the same, they all sound the same, they all accelerate the same, they all brake the same, they all turn in the same - no wonder there is so much contact.

One comment on the Joker Lap - get rid of it. Rallycross is all about action, close racing. The joker lap splits the cars up, it lets a faster driver get past a slower driver without the spectator seeing any over taking.

Rallycross only needs 5 classes.

Class 1 - any body shell, 4 wheel drive, any engine any size in original position, turbo if you want and different weight limit for engine size / turbo etc.

Class 2 - any body shell, 2 wheel drive, any engine in original position over 1600cc, no turbo, min weight limit say 1000kg

Class 3 - any body shell, 2 wheel drive up to 1600, no turbo, maybee allow bike engines, maybee allow mid engine, min weight say 750kg

Class 4 - introductory class, maybee stock hatch or one make series, but only one class

Class 5 - historic rallycross / rally cars, say pre 1990. Strictly no contact and run in groups of 4.

Thats it, no other classes, no buggies and no nippers. I would proberbly race class 2 and 3 together as people want to see david v golieth type races.

End of year gp - all cars in together, prize for overall winner and best 2wd.

The only other thing it needs is bigger penalties / bans for contact. Most of the cars are run on a tight budget, and body repairs cost a fortune.

I think british rallycross needs to be promoted by some-one who does not own a circuit and does not compete in rallycross. Rounds need to be split north, south and midlands.

Don't think most competitiors are bothered about having to pay for it to be on tv. If the product is good, the tv will pay to film it.

Good post. I only can't see why you need the 5th class. In Belgum I've seen that even f.i. an Escort mk2 fits perfectly in class 2.

It's nice to see a 6R4 for once a year, but if it's not competing (like in it's glorydays) I don't see the point of it. Not the ral thing for us who were there in the grp.B area, not interesting if not competing for a younger generation. Just my 2 cents...

Regards,
Jan

[DFP]

For uk rallycross winnie's post is where the class structure needs to be, i said something similar in an other discussion on this forum. this is a succesful,tried and tested formula. it also needs to be permanent to provide the confidence for those who are able, to build new cars as this will make more cars available further down the line.
There should be as little regulation as possible to allow engineering and driving skills to compete with a big wallet.
The joker lap is just that. Very few people from clubman rallycross will compete anywhere else but the UK
I also think that the organisation should be firmly put back in the motor clubs hands , Whilst i understand the financial commitment needed i think time has shown
that it was a mistake to have one organiser.

rallycrossis by it's nature viciously expensive to be competitive in, i don't beleive that a cheap class can work,

[winnie]

Yes i agree that a Mk2 escort will fit in Class 2, and could be competitive with a modern engine, transmission and brakes, but thats missing the point.

The drivers i would like to see back racing are people that packed it in 10 to 15 years ago and still have the car in the garage. These people are looking for a place to race / demonstrate their cars without getting them smashed up. A perfect example is Ray Morgan with his Mk3 BDA escort. It's a bit battered, but sounds great and it goes sideways.

As a paying spectator i would be more than happy to watch a couple of grids of BDA escorts sliding around fighting for grip - in fact it couldn't get any better.

Providing the contact was kept under control by having small grids i think you would attract historic rally cars, of which there are plenty. Can you imagine half a dozen BDA escorts / fiesta's, a couple of TR8's, maybee a 911, 3 or 4 mini's etc, all racing each other. The crowds would love it. The cars are all out there waiting to be raced.

I'm driving 300 miles in a couple of weeks to watch the Roger Clark rally, i wouldn't drive 20 miles to watch rallycross as it is at the moment.

[Coppertop]

I think there is a great deal of difference between ERC, British and Clubman Rallycross and this should stay.

The best way to consider this is similar to circuit racing people very rarely start their racing career in F1 - so why do people assume they should adjust everthing so they can start in Supercar ERC?

The clubman championship is about learning race craft, getting the car set up and understanding how things at a race meeting work. Then move to the British, it is possible to run a car in the clubmans and move it into the British, just choose the right car to begin with.

To reduce cost or more even racing - maybe think about a clubamns class with a control tyre - however much you spend - the tyres WILL even out believe me.

Everyone has an opinion which is great, but very few actually turn up to meeting and voice these opinions. As organisers do try to take on board comments, but 9/10 times they never actually hear them until they are seen on forums like this.

If you have an interest in Rallycross - why not come along to a meeting and offer to help? Things are very different on the other side - the grass is not always greener!!!

[16valve]

why is everybody so into what the erc does,bring back the good old days of british rallycross,swift cars where a low budget entry to rallycross must be the queens budget,a good low buget car where anyone has a chance to enter not everybody is a millionaire

[leonidas]

Originally Posted by Coppertop

Everyone has an opinion which is great, but very few actually turn up to meeting and voice these opinions. As organisers do try to take on board comments, but 9/10 times they never actually hear them until they are seen on forums like this.

The problem is that a lot of these points have been made for at least the last five years - some at meetings, some on this board. In fact you can look at similar threads on this board going back to about 2004! Perhaps why people don't turn up to meetings these days?

Credit to the powers that be for the Historic class - it was looking really good at the Grand Prix and my guess is this will grow big time next year (just keep a tight rein on entrants so costs don't get out of control.)

Not so good is the lack of entry-level opportunities. Swifts remain slow, boring and too expensive. Just two junior cars out on Sunday said it all.

[USRallycross]

Despite my (evil) involvement in the GRC I do hark back to the 'old days' of the 80's of Escort and then 6R4's. I enjoyed many a Sunday freezing to death at Lydden for the Winter Championship and made my own Minicross debut on a Christmas meeting.

The trouble as i have said before is everyone wants to be on TV and if they can't win they either get creative until they can or don't come out and play anymore. Likewise everyone had to one up each other off the circuit and all of a sudden most transporters cost more than the grid of cars they race in. In the ealry 90's coaches were a luxury now it is big rigs.

I like Winnie's post - keep it very simple and fun. As Chunder says no motorsport is that affordable although Minicross represented really good value for money and still can if policed properly.

For my part I like the retro class. So much so that i have gone and bought a Mk1 Escort that will be out next year in Haynes of Maidstone colors and perhaps with someone a lot more famous and successful at driving than me! The fans gravitate to this because it brings back memories for us all. I think Shirley is onto a big winner with this.

Mark

[schanche]

Originally Posted by USRallycross

For my part I like the retro class. So much so that i have gone and bought a Mk1 Escort that will be out next year in Haynes of Maidstone colors and perhaps with someone a lot more famous and successful at driving than me! The fans gravitate to this because it brings back memories for us all. I think Shirley is onto a big winner with this.

Mark

Good to read Mark, that Colours have been found for the Escort, you cant let your guest have all the fun in the Retro class Couple of years in the retro before the escort goes to the U.S a great addition to the series..

[Greg Cozier]

OK, in summary:

Plan for Barbados RallyCross International Nov 30th, 2013.

1.6Km track, 11m wide, long flowing corners and 300m straight with two hairpins. Mixed surface, no dust, no large stones, plenty of elevation changes, one banked corner. No need for Joker lap but the slip road over the bridge exists if we want it.

The barrier in the center of the track is there for rallysprint, that will be gone.

Classes will be:

Supercar - 1300Kg with driver
Super 2000 - 1100Kg with driver
Super 1600 - 1000Kg with driver
Classic 2WD (pre 1982); 1600cc cars weigh 900Kg, 2000cc cars weigh 1000Kg, over-2000cc cars weigh 1100Kg
Open Class for everything else like UK super-modifieds.

Qualifying will be on day 1 with cars staggered from the standing start (no racing) and free spectator access.
Day 2 will be as many heats as are required for the number of entries with only the fastest cars going forward to a single final in each class. At the end of the day there will be a handicap race for the winners of the class finals with start staggered according to their winning times.