Legge returns to Formula Renault

[Russfeld]

Be interesting to see what Donnington Park gets for World Series attendance

[Kicking-back]

Originally Posted by No 4

Is that really the case? My understanding is that Kevin Kalkhoven has largely funded Katherine's drive in TA, though I stand to be corrected.

Purely because he's also the owner of ChampCar and wanted a girl to combat the Danica factor Indy has.

It's not an opportunity which would have been available to anyone else.

[No 4]

Whilst I've got every respect for Katherine as a driver, not sure she is quiet as glamorous as Danica Patrick, though 'beauty being in the eye of the beholder' others may feel different!!

[Rob29]

Originally Posted by Russfeld

Be interesting to see what Donnington Park gets for World Series attendance

Yes it will.I seem to remember that Renault advertised that this would be free,and I entered my name on some website for my free ticket,but that was months ago and I have heard nothing since..

[No 4]

Originally Posted by Rob29

Yes it will.I seem to remember that Renault advertised that this would be free,and I entered my name on some website for my free ticket,but that was months ago and I have heard nothing since..

Me neither!!!

[fantasytoca]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Purely because he's also the owner of ChampCar and wanted a girl to combat the Danica factor Indy has.

It's not an opportunity which would have been available to anyone else.

To be fair Katherine made the opportunity because she had the balls (no pun intended) to hunt down Kalkhoven when he was in the UK and put herself forward for a drive - lets not forget that late last year she also gatecrashed a test drive to which she had not been invited, talked the organisers into letting her have a drive and proceeded to top the timesheets, so no one can accuse her of not being proactive to promote her career.

As I understand it Kalkhoven is providing the bulk of the funding for her drive and its on a race by race basis so presumably he must be happy with the way the season is going by the fact she is still driving.

He has publically said that Katherine has no guarantee of a Champ Car drive or even a test and she herself said in media interviews over the weekend that she feels she needs another year in Toyota Atlantics to gain experience.

I should add that I have no connection with Katherine other than she comes from a town only 10 miles or so from me and so her career often features in our local press.

[Suze]

Originally Posted by Rob29

Yes it will.I seem to remember that Renault advertised that this would be free,and I entered my name on some website for my free ticket,but that was months ago and I have heard nothing since..

The meeting's not until September though. The Times gave away free tickets for Goodwood, and I applied and heard nothing until they were sent through the post on the Monday (tickets were for the Friday) so guess it's something like the with the World Series and they'll come through much nearer the time.

[Kicking-back]

Exactly.

There would be little point in sending out constant letters saying "we've not forgotten!"

[ensign14]

Originally Posted by fantasytoca

He has publically said that Katherine has no guarantee of a Champ Car drive or even a test and she herself said in media interviews over the weekend that she feels she needs another year in Toyota Atlantics to gain experience.

Tho' given at least one headline of "Danica Who?" I think the last thing ChampCar wants is to lose a woman driver.

Then again, I doubt there's a seat as good as Rahal in ChampCar available to her. It would not be good for her or ChampCar if she wallied around in a Coyne.

[Snrub]

I think there's some exageration as to the success of Atlantics. As a support race there is a crowd watching, but that doesn't mean they have widespread interest. An Atlantics race on its own would have few people watching. I have very limited knowledge/viewing of European feeder racing, but I get the distinct impression that it's in much better shape than in North America. It stands to reason that it would be, more people over there are interested in open wheel racing. Over here people are more into stock cars, etc. Also, if atlantics is a great route for drivers, where are the likes of Fogarty, Valiente, Dalziel, Orsi, etc. driving?

Was Zwolsman that mediocre in Euro F3? He looks pretty handy in an Atlantics car.

At the moment Legge has a way to go, but to me she looks like she has some potential.

I think it's easy to poo-poo Atlantics and say that it's always inferrior, but you don't have to look any further than Ranger and Bremer and compare them to Wirdheim, Glock and Richardo Sperafico to realize that Atlantics has produced good drivers. Even compare the rookie Champ Car performances of the now proven Wilson and Manning.

[Kicking-back]

Ranger and Bremer's advantage was track knowledge, largely and being part of "the scene".

Bremer wasn't much to write home about in F3.

[Suze]

Originally Posted by Snrub

Was Zwolsman that mediocre in Euro F3? He looks pretty handy in an Atlantics car.

Yes he was....

I think it's easy to poo-poo Atlantics and say that it's always inferrior, but you don't have to look any further than Ranger and Bremer and compare them to Wirdheim, Glock and Richardo Sperafico to realize that Atlantics has produced good drivers. Even compare the rookie Champ Car performances of the now proven Wilson and Manning.

True, Wilson and Manning's rookie performances in Champ Car were both good...but where are they now? Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with them as drivers but they're not really doing too much to write home about.

[JohnMiller]

Originally Posted by Suze

True, Wilson and Manning's rookie performances in Champ Car were both good...but where are they now? Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with them as drivers but they're not really doing too much to write home about.

LOL - a right pair of failures.

[Mystery]

Cant say I'd agree at all. Isnt Manning blowing away a former champion in identical machinery (whilst to be fair he's being well challenged by a rookie in identical machinery too). And as for Wilson if it wasnt for an engine blow up and a stupid mistake last week he'd be leading the championship. Dont sound like failures to me.

[No 4]

Originally Posted by Suze

Yes he was....



True, Wilson and Manning's rookie performances in Champ Car were both good...but where are they now? Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with them as drivers but they're not really doing too much to write home about.

This sort of comment, which is light on accuracy and high on rhetoric, seems to typify the Britsh trait of rubbishing anyone who's achieved a modicum of success, rather than really getting behind them and helping them achieve even more.

There also seems to be an under current in this thread, which suggests that many posters think UK motorsport is inherently better than its' US counterpart.

In terms of driving standards this may or may not be true, but looking at the broader picture it's myopic at best and downright dangerous at worst.

As with sports like golf, tennis, football, as a consequence of our thinking we had a god given right to be best, we ignored the fact that many other countries were watching and improving on what was going on in the UK, with the result that they now dominate these sports and we've ended up struggling to regain our former preminence.

In the context of motorsport, currently the US is definitely ahead of the UK in how it packages, markets and stages it's major championships, Nascar for example, not F1, being this biggest revenue generating motorsport series wolrdwide.

OK, perhaps the overall driving standards still lag behind. However,as the Chelsea example illustrates, where money is available it's a matter of time before the 'best' want a part of it.

[Russfeld]

Its not UK vs US motorsport, but European motorsport vs US motorsport.

NASCAR is still second to F1. Their revenues come close to F1, but thats because they sell their license to everything and have official sponsors and suppliers whereas F1's brand identity is a result of whatever work the teams have done. F1 is amusingly the largest former of motorsport worldwide in spite of itself.

[Kicking-back]

Originally Posted by Suze

Yes he was....



True, Wilson and Manning's rookie performances in Champ Car were both good...but where are they now? Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with them as drivers but they're not really doing too much to write home about.

Wilson won a race about a week ago!

[pmaster]

In the last 3 weeks, I've been to both Champ Car and F1 rounds. Take this as an example: Thursday night, Champ car street party, MY GOD!, actual RACE CARS and RACE DRIVERS accessible, touchable, fan friendly etc.
In the morning the local NFL team had hosted a massive press effort at their local stadium. All weekend the Champ car paddock was accessible and no-one minded talking to anyone who was interested. Race day morning, although 89,000 were in for the day, it took less than 8 MINUTES fron downtown Cleveland to the paddock, and less than 30 minutes from the main airport. Race day was an incredibly full programme, which ran to time all day long depite numerous cautions and reds. 15 minutes max between races from 10am to 6pm.

F!? Queues now acceptable and tolerable, atmosphere great, but get close to the paddock: no chance. The ivory towers remain impenetrable to all but the priveleged few. Some good racing, great Red Arrows, but somehow F1 wants to be too elevated on it's pinnacle, and at the end of the day it's still 20 cars, but with only four in the real race, and maybe that's the problem.

But I deviate. In the US there is such a diversity of ages and abilities in the Junior and Feeder series that it is true that the competition in depth is not the same as in UK & Europe. However, the best still need to be at least as good as their European counterparts, and the front end racing is as intense and vital. F1 can compete once a year in the UK, but for the FANS (not die hard afficionados) the US "nobody does it better" (Carly Simon).

[No 4]

Pmaster - good to hear I have an ally!! Somehow standing at Redgate in driving, cold winter rain watching my son scream past on a wet Donington track doesn't compare!!

Seriously, you've endorsed what I've been trying to get over on this thread, which is that US motorsport provides better facilities, sells itself more effectively and recognises it's in the entertianment business - in short it's fan friendly.

Ultimately money talks and it's my belief that as long as UK motorsport remains dominated by die hard afficionados, more and more UK drivers will be heeding the old adage of 'Go west young man'.

In this context, my son has just flown out to Milwaukee and San Jose where he will attend the next Indy and Champ car weekends. When he asked the series organisers if it would be possible for him to meet some of the drivers and teams, the Managing Directors of both organised free VIP passes and set up meetings right down the pit lane. They couldn't have been more helpful. Can you imagine Bernie doing the same!!

[mountainstar]

All this stuff about "driving standards" is baloney. USA teams are just as professionally run, if not more so than UK teams. And in many cases these teams are run and staffed by ex-pat Brits! The USA is just a different enviroment and some flourish here compared to the UK. That's just the way it is. It's no different in any other business or sport. For instance, I found a team and coach/engineer I'm happy with and I feel I'm more likely to succeed in that enviroment compare to other teams or situations. I think in Katherine's case she found a well funded opportunity with a good team and she's done well.

On top of that, the USA is about the only place you can turn up and do a job without having a stigma attached to you. I'd say from my experiences, UK teams are more worried about your nationality, how old you are, what you look like and breaks for tea, all this useless crap that means nothing towards getting a car into victory lane. All Mr. Kalkoven saw in Katherine was a will to succeed and win. He wasn't worried about anything else.

UK motorsport was at one time the place to go, not anymore. I've seen even in recent years that other countries are rapidly catching up to the UK or surpassing it. I've just been catching up on reading recent Autosports and was almost shocked at how many drivers are jumping in and out of FRenault, FBMW and F3 teams. It's almost like reading a gossip column every week to see which celebrity is sleeping with which. Not exactly a healthy bunch of championships.

[Kicking-back]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

On top of that, the USA is about the only place you can turn up and do a job without having a stigma attached to you. I'd say from my experiences, UK teams are more worried about your nationality, how old you are, what you look like and breaks for tea, all this useless crap that means nothing towards getting a car into victory lane.

Nonsense.

Absolute nonsense.

[Russfeld]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

All this stuff about "driving standards" is baloney. USA teams are just as professionally run, if not more so than UK teams.

A current CART driver and former F3000 champion has a mutual friend with me and he once remarked that a CART team he tested for, but did not drive for was at the level of "about a Formula Ford team"

[foreversideways]

I think you have to say that the Americans really know how to put on a show and entertain, and thats not just in motorsport. All events and sports must try harder in the US as there are so many activities competing for the dollar. Look how hard the premier single seater championships have to compete against NASCAR to get a look in. As to driving standards, the notion that they are poorer in America is clearly buncum. In the past the better drivers have gravitated to Europe as it was seen as the only way you could carve out a career in motorsport. However with the size of the F1 grid and the fact that there are more divers worldwide then ever before ( a reflection on improved safety i think) we now see many drivers moving to the US as a career move, not a backward step . I understand that there are more paid drives, more sponsorship available, teams with money who need good drivers and generally more opportunities. Look how long James Weaver has been competing and making a good living over there. We need to take the Formula One plank out of our eyes and see a little more clearly. A lot of people who pontificate about Formula One never even go and watch a Formula 3 race let alone a club meeting, they watch these 20 something F1 cars on TV and think that is motorsport. Mind you i have allways wondered how you can have a baseball world series that never leaves the USA

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by foreversideways

I think you have to say that the Americans really know how to put on a show and entertain, and thats not just in motorsport. All events and sports must try harder in the US as there are so many activities competing for the dollar. Look how hard the premier single seater championships have to compete against NASCAR to get a look in. As to driving standards, the notion that they are poorer in America is clearly buncum. In the past the better drivers have gravitated to Europe as it was seen as the only way you could carve out a career in motorsport. However with the size of the F1 grid and the fact that there are more divers worldwide then ever before ( a reflection on improved safety i think) we now see many drivers moving to the US as a career move, not a backward step . I understand that there are more paid drives, more sponsorship available, teams with money who need good drivers and generally more opportunities. Look how long James Weaver has been competing and making a good living over there. We need to take the Formula One plank out of our eyes and see a little more clearly. A lot of people who pontificate about Formula One never even go and watch a Formula 3 race let alone a club meeting, they watch these 20 something F1 cars on TV and think that is motorsport. Mind you i have allways wondered how you can have a baseball world series that never leaves the USA

Toronto Blue Jays????

[No 4]

Well said Foreversideways. The closed minded, old style, UK motorsport enthusiasts will be the death of the sport. They need to stop being so arrogant, look around and accept that the world is changing, and that they need to change with it. Key is them accepting that top class national championships are as much about entertainment, as about sport per sae. If they do, they'll then need to get their heads around the fact that motorsport is not just competing against other sports (many of whom provide vastly better facilities for spectators) the £ in people's pockets, but also against other liesure spend options such as the cinema, music concerts and shopping.

To do this UK motorport has to reinvent the way it markets and sells itself + treat fans/spectators with respect, provide them with first class facilities/catering and generally put on a great show.

Their are glimmers of hope. outfits like Richard Dean's JLR and Gavin Wills West-tec, seem to understand the need to engage with fans and entertain the crowds. We need many more like them.