Bell's Banter 2021

[Gerard C]

I dont see any recommendation about the vaccine you've to chose for the booster, only for those who had Jansen. I had the choice and will go for Moderna because I rely on this research team, had already two with few issues and its easier to get an appointment for it at least in my area! Many studies confirm its the best avalaible so far but mainly there's a crisis of confidence about this vaccine.
When you say "who knows" John, its a F' good question! Seems that when you really know it can be too late…

[Mike Harte]

I see that Hertfordshire County Council still don't know about the laws pertaining to roads and permitting vehicles to safely pass and repass. I say this because I, on behalf of the residents of the unadopted road (that is a private road that is not closed to non permitted vehicles for 24 hours once every 12 months but is maintained by the residents), had a battle with them when Hertsmere threatened to remove speed humps we installed to deter drivers who used it as a rat run.

Hertsmere handed the problem over to HCC when I threatened to seek an injunction to stop them after spending many hours in the British Library trawling through dusty law books seeking to find common law that allowed us to have the bumps. I eventually found what I needed in a 1600s law, I think it was (we are talking about 40 years ago, and the memory is dimming), and when I quoted this to HCC, they quickly stopped threatening even though they never acknowledged that they and Hertsmere were in the wrong as the speed humps were made to exactly the specifications that the government's own experts recommended (another place I can't remember) and the humps were still there a couple of years back when I went to visit a couple of my old neighbours.

See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-eng...herts-59641534

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

Here it was a clear policy that those who had had AZ for the first two (as I did) should have Pfizer for the booster. Supposedly protection was dramatically improved by the mix...... although I have seen one report today saying that having only the double AZ jabs gives very little protection against contracting the new variant - although protection against serious illness is probably possible.

Richard,
If one reads randomly on the news feeds one can read anything about anything, News reporting by press release.

Around here, since AZ is not participating in the "booster" program, us AZ recipients for round 1 and round 2 will get PZ or the Moderna stuff. HMG seems to have ordered a lot so they need to use it, presumably, to avoid negative press sometime next year when they will either be throwing it away or giving it to other countries wh that may or may not need it.

But then again the stats suggest that whether vaccinated or not or previously infected, the ability to contract Covid more than once is probably no different. Only the severity of the effect may be influenced, although as yet that is not a well-measured metric.

There is some suggestion that the "booster" jabs may need to be administered every 3 months or so for them to offer any real benefits. Even then that only holds up if new variants fall in line. The vaccines that will be claimed to be more effective for, say, Omicron will not be available (unless someone takes an executive decision to shorten testing drastically) until about the point that a new variant is likely to appear and become dominant.

In other words, it would be likely that any new targetted vaccine would be largely obsolete (in those parts of the world advanced enough to have "the science") by the time the vaccine is ready for deployment.

More importantly, perhaps, and relating to Gerard's observations in respect of France, any sort of "Passport" should be VERY short-lived if it is to have any influence on the effect of controls at all.

In fact, for the UK and presumably other places, the most dangerous group of people to be around, if one is not vaccinated or has some sort of compromised health situation to deal with, would be the vaccinated cohorts who might be carrying and transmitting the virus (especially Omicron compared to earlier incarnations) without knowing about it.

That, plus of course my age, is enough to persuade me that partying in clubs during the "holiday" period may have to be off my list of things to do.

Phew.

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by grantp

In other words, it would be likely that any new targetted vaccine would be largely obsolete (in those parts of the world advanced enough to have "the science") by the time the vaccine is ready for deployment.
That, plus of course my age, is enough to persuade me that partying in clubs during the "holiday" period may have to be off my list of things to do.

Grant, isnt targetted vaccine against flu obsolete year after year? Always one stroke behind imo.
As to not going to some, lets say many many, puiblic places you're so right. My Fiesta ecoboost system having something wrong I couldnt fix myself, I had to take a bus… What a nightmare! I dont feel the stickers "keep your distance safely" can help, unless the virus can read them! Phew as you say…

[John Elwin]

Just 'Keep calm & carry on' as they say.

This Omicron thing seems to be too trivial to get worked-up over. I just watched an interview on GB News with the S. African doctor who discovered it. Laughing, she said she thinks UK must have a different version of it to SA.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by John Elwin

Just 'Keep calm & carry on' as they say.

This Omicron thing seems to be too trivial to get worked-up over. I just watched an interview on GB News with the S. African doctor who discovered it. Laughing, she said she thinks UK must have a different version of it to SA.

Indeed.

Johnson has reported that someone has died "with" Omicron or "of" Omicron depending on which news feed one has read or listened to. If "of" is correct, as far as I have heard, that would be another world first for the NHS.

Meanwhile, there is strong evidence that vitamin D together with supplements of vitamin K2 and Zinc for those who could benefit from them, would likely have very positive benefits for resisting the worst effects of the worst forms of Covid seen so far. The cost should be trivial. No risks. Even the possibility of wider health benefits. So it's just puzzling that this has not become health advice as an aid to the prevention of serious consequences.

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by John Elwin

Just 'Keep calm & carry on' as they say.

This Omicron thing seems to be too trivial to get worked-up over. I just watched an interview on GB News with the S. African doctor who discovered it. Laughing, she said she thinks UK must have a different version of it to SA.

Like someone said you can find anything on the internet. GBN is most likely to find this comment, just as the Guardian is most likely to find someone wanting to shut us down.

The biggest thing we appear to be worried about is that even a small percentage hospitalised of an awfully big number of infections is a big number, and the press obsesses on big numbers even if only a tiny percentage and never in context. Witness the frequent reports that something raises the risk of cancer by X% without saying what the base risk is - from minimal to slightly more likely, for instance. So given the government have been slated for acting too slowly in the past, I think they are rightly jumping with sensible measures now.

It's no hardship to wear a mask or indeed show some kind of a pass.

What was interesting tonight was the Mini MM - very much of the "woke" generation - came out with "we've got to stop jumping at every variant. We can't stop working every time, where's it going to end?"



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[Lancsbreaker]

Discussing with friends IRL today, it was suggested that the international comparison statistics that we see may be less than comparable. It was claimed that in Germany the death of someone who had any form of underlying condition would not be considered a "covid" death, whereas we in UK count anyone who dies who tested positive within 28 days of their demise. No idea whether this is true If I get really bored I might do some more research......

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Grant, isnt targetted vaccine against flu obsolete year after year? Always one stroke behind imo.

Indeed it can be Gerard, but after 100 years they have half a clue about what to target for the following year in order to be at least somewhat effective. Never expect 100% protection for all.

As people have pointed out, earlier (dare one suggest "natural"?) SARS infections burned out completely (so it seems) much more quickly than the current strains and with far less negative impact.

And that's pretty much what happened to the flu pandemic a century ago, the legacy being what we see now for Flu and can sort of plan for with a bit of a prediction and guesswork, year after year.

One wonders, if there was pressure from the masses to prevent all serious flu illness at all ages at any cost, whether the pharma businesses could simply manufacture large quantities of all vaccination candidates every year and just throw away what was not required. (Assuming it could not be stored for subsequent years.)

All they would need would be the payments to cover the costs and as we can see, if policy says it is important enough the "money" will be found from somewhere. Given a few years we may even discover from where it was found.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

Discussing with friends IRL today, it was suggested that the international comparison statistics that we see may be less than comparable. It was claimed that in Germany the death of someone who had any form of underlying condition would not be considered a "covid" death, whereas we in UK count anyone who dies who tested positive within 28 days of their demise. No idea whether this is true If I get really bored I might do some more research......

It does seem to be true that reporting standards are not entirely consistent around the world.

Many have never seemed to stack up if compared country by country.

There seems to be quite subtle use of the words "with" and "of".

Died "with" Covid (having tested positive often during a hospital stay or in a Care Home) seems to count just as much as "of" Covid where the root cause of the demise can be pinned squarely on the effects of the disease or perhaps the response to the treatment for a relatively severe impact of the virus in conjunction with some known of sometimes previously unknown additional health conditions.

The media do not seem to be terribly consistent at understanding such nuance in the use of language.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by grantp

The media do not seem to be terribly consistent at understanding such nuance in the use of language.

Oh, I think they do, they just don’t care as long as they get a headline.

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by andy97

Oh, I think they do, they just don’t care as long as they get a headline.

I think that explains a lot of the problem succinctly in one short sentence.

If we all got on with our lives & stopped talking about it the thing would diminish into irrelevance. Only problem would be persuading the public sector & doctors to start work again!

[midgetman]

Can I recommend this article on the BBC? I don't think you have to register to see it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59639973

Really interesting item on how the third dose helps massively.

I think putting your fingers in your ears and pretending Covid 19 is a media event only is a little short sighted. The disease is rampant around here, and even if the hospitalisations stay low the knock on effect of people being off work is crippling.. I've stopped going to studio cycling given that one of my friends caught C19 there, it's not terribly well organised.

No I'm not "cowering " I am actually "living with it", taking sensible precautions to try and avoid being off work with an unpleasant bug.

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[Mike Harte]

I'm with you, Max. We do have to learn how to live with it, but you cannot bury your head in the sand and ignore that it exists. And we need the media to keep up is informed, hopefully with correct data, because, to be brutally honest, I barely believe a word that comes out of the mouths of our current government!

In my own case, as my immunity is so low, this means that living with Covid requires me to almost wrap myself up in cotton wool to avoid contact with anyone who may have Covid, possibly without even knowing that he or she has it.

It is not a trivial matter for people in the same boat as me, and I can assure you that the vast majority of the medical profession take it very seriously. This is why, when I was in the hospital for the extended stay, the staff took every possible precaution that non-Covid patients were protected from any cross-contamination with those suffering with it in other wards. Which is why, after I was sat in the recovery room after the operation, they couldn't send me along to the ICU because they were waiting for the latest Covid test results to be received which took 3 hours.

So, I and hundreds of thousands of others, need to be informed so that we can take whatever measures we can to avoid getting this blasted thing.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by John Elwin

If we all got on with our lives & stopped talking about it the thing would diminish into irrelevance. Only problem would be persuading the public sector & doctors to start work again!

This is a fairly distasteful post IMO.
Viruses don't just disappear by ignoring them, and from personal experience - a member of staff where I worked passed away in the last month. The cause? I'm sure you can guess.
Would anyone posting something like this be willing to spend time with that person's family this Christmas and explain to them why we should stop talking about this thing and it will go away?

As regards to the public sector - who do you think will be having to sacrifice precious time with their families this Christmas to run the vaccine campaign? I could name 100's of public sector workers (including doctors) who have sacrificed so much in the last 2 years to try and make this thing go away!

[Gerard C]

Just had two injections this morning and the secondary effects were rather immediate. Two coffees offered by two different women in less than twenty minutes! No really young but cute. Its either the booster boosts my natural charm (very doubtful) or some ladies are scared to die before testing Gerry'Mo abilities! Always pleased to help damsels in distress… Attention, je ne suis pas un garçon facile, il n'y en aura pas pour tout le monde!

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

This is a fairly distasteful post IMO.
Viruses don't just disappear by ignoring them, and from personal experience - a member of staff where I worked passed away in the last month. The cause? I'm sure you can guess.
Would anyone posting something like this be willing to spend time with that person's family this Christmas and explain to them why we should stop talking about this thing and it will go away?

As regards to the public sector - who do you think will be having to sacrifice precious time with their families this Christmas to run the vaccine campaign? I could name 100's of public sector workers (including doctors) who have sacrificed so much in the last 2 years to try and make this thing go away!

I lost my own wife of 30 years to cancer after a long illness not too long ago, so I don't need any lectures concerning the loss of a loved one, thank you very much.

I think you misunderstood the gist of my comment, but anyway my real concern lies with those with serious illnesses who just seem to have been abandoned to their fate. Thankfully Mike H seems to be getting the care he needs, but that is far from the case for everyone. The focus is too much in one direction.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by John Elwin

I think you misunderstood the gist of my comment, but anyway my real concern lies with those with serious illnesses who just seem to have been abandoned to their fate. Thankfully Mike H seems to be getting the care he needs, but that is far from the case for everyone. The focus is too much in one direction.

John, I am afraid that I am also affected by the Covid problem because I should have had my follow up surgery 4 months ago, and when I saw my surgeon a couple of weeks ago, he just laughed when I said that did this mean that the surgery would be soon as the team were going through the necessary procedures in preparation for the operation. He told me that he was not doing any elective surgery, just emergency cases which is why they were doing the tests because they couldn't do anything else.

All they can do, because the hospital is filling up with Covid cases, is to just try to keep me stable whilst I am at home, but if I need intervention like last year, then they will have to re-admit me and keep me there until they can start using the theatres, again like last year.

So, from that point of view, I still have concerns about Covid, hopefully not that I will get it, but that they can get on top of it to free up the hospitals so that life can go back to something like it was.

[Gerard C]

Great driver, Ford Escort and Vauxhall Magnum for instance, le Claude just left us. Son accent de titi parisien et sa gouaille vont manquer.

Salut a Toi, Claudius Premier!

[MartinH]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Great driver, Ford Escort and Vauxhall Magnum for instance, le Claude just left us. Son accent de titi parisien et sa gouaille vont manquer.

Salut a Toi, Claudius Premier!

Gerard, l've just heard this news via Louis Q.

Claude was a great fun guy to know ..... Always happy & will be sadly missed ... The French version of Gerry Marshall in my opinion ... Vauhall Magnum , Escorts etc. & boy did he know how to live life !!!

RIP Claude & un grand salut to him & all who knew him.

MartinH

[Gerard C]

Bonjour Martin. Agreed. That's why I didnt write the usual belonies when an old chap goes away. Il aurait aimé qu'on fasse la fete!

[midgetman]

Good job there's no racing ATM

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[Peter Mallett]

Yes but all those skiers will be unhappy.

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Yes but all those skiers will be unhappy.

It's the slippery slope, I'm sure.

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[morninggents]

Yes, they'll be piste off.