Gloves and safety gear.

[Rudernst]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Haha Rudolf, I get accused of the same thing when I take my shop to local events so I am a perfect person to "cast the first stone"!

Are you going to Race Retro or will you be racing at Silverstone Classic? If so we must meet and I will try and sell you some hi vis gloves

Hi
no Race Retro, would have to fly in, German, You see

Silverstone Classic, yes
And I am good at loosing gloves, so you have a chance..

Re: contrasting colour:I have to single seaters in bright colours, yellow and light green, black would make a contrast, but seems not a good idea...
looks best though

Rudolf

[grantp]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Haha Rudolf, I get accused of the same thing when I take my shop to local events so I am a perfect person to "cast the first stone"!

Are you going to Race Retro or will you be racing at Silverstone Classic? If so we must meet and I will try and sell you some hi vis gloves

Hey Max, how about developing some gloves with flashing led bulbs on the back, activated when someone puts their hand up to indicate a problem.

Get FiA approval first and you would have a guaranteed market.

Best keep the idea quiet though or everyone will do it.

[R D P]

Even better would be a type of gloves with changeable colours ( liquid crystal coating or similar...).
Having the same problem as Rudolf with different car colours (white, Kermit-green, silver) I use black gloves at the moment, too.
Or would the style advisors have any ideas ?

Ralf

[HRSTR5]

At the FJ AGM Duncan made the point very clearly that it would be "very" foolish for anyone to travel to an FIA Lurani race in 2012 with an underheight hoop (as I understand it early FJs don't actually have to have one at all, but i'd certainly not be happy to drive one without). Duncan also pointed out that the rules applied equally to UK FJ Championship races and that drivers could reasonably expect to have issues if they turn up with ineligible hoops.

Delta has cut the existing hoop out of my Elva, and replacing it with a taller one is on his "Winter Projects" list ...

James

[RICHARD.T]

Simon, thanks' for the information.

Will I have to have a Hans device for Monaco in 2012?

The F3 race is run to the French rules, but in 2010 the British cars could run to their rules such as using their 2.5 kilo fire extinguishers rather than the larger size that the french use. For 2012 the French are making it conpulsory to use a Hans device in their races but it is not in the UK.

[midgetman]

Given the cost of a helmet and HANS device is probably less than the fuel costs to get down there and be chucked out, I think it's most advisable to buy one anyway. It's not as if you can't use it in the UK.

When we ran MGs in FISC, which is a much lower level than your F3 cars, we had to abide by local regs. Those were to NEAFP rules, so e.g. We had to have 4 litre extinguishers, FIA clothing and in Holland couldn't run an open car without arm restraints because those had been adopted by the local ASN.

[zefarelly]

I've always had FiA spec gear, the initial appeal was it should be as good/safe as anything and its universally accepted, its a no brainer really, unless you want to stay in your own back yard forever.

as for contrasting colours and style in general, you'd have to talk to my tailor

[R D P]

...phone number, please ?

More seriously, I also always had FIA spec stuff - though especially running a pre war car at German events no one really cares. People are sometimes allowed to use firefighters helmets or similar useful equipment.
It is regukarity stuff, mostly, at hillclimbs etc. - but a wall or armco would not know the difference to real racing...

Ralf

[duckspeed racing]

hi there just a quick question about roll bars/cages

i have got a saloon (standard vanguard) and am quite tall at 6' 1" would the 2 inches rules apply to a saloon roll cage? and if so how would i get around it if it was under as the cage can't be any higher and the seat can't be any lower

cheers in advance

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by duckspeed racing

hi there just a quick question about roll bars/cages

i have got a saloon (standard vanguard) and am quite tall at 6' 1" would the 2 inches rules apply to a saloon roll cage? and if so how would i get around it if it was under as the cage can't be any higher and the seat can't be any lower

cheers in advance

No, It's for sports racing cars.

[terence]

Probably advisable in a saloon as well though

[duckspeed racing]

Thanks for that will check when i next sit in the car

[Simon Hadfield]

Actually the specific 2" rule is for single seaters, but it can be applied across the board - as I said before "if in doubt, check!"

[zefarelly]

A damned good question. There are plenty of cars I just can't get in . . . even if I could find or afford them, Diva GT being one, G4 with a roof another

[AndyV]

Originally Posted by Simon Hadfield

Actually the specific 2" rule is for single seaters, but it can be applied across the board - as I said before "if in doubt, check!"

Sports cars over 2000 are required to meet drawing K31 as well.

Tbh it is another vagarity of the blue book that needs tidying up. the current rule appears to be if it is visible you must be 2" under if not then you dont

IMHO it should apply to all cars. I used to run my little triumph with a flimsey grp hardtop and a cage would not fit under it and still meet the 2" rule. This was never any problem, but when I removed the roof to run topless it was much more visible and I made sure I scrunched down in the seat when driving into scrutineering! I've since fitted a taller cage.

[rogerwills]

Back to the roll hoop question. I've looked at drawing K31 and also the diagram on page 185 of this document: http://wormhough.co.uk/Documents/150...afety)_(K).pdf

Regarding Monaco and a single seater, is the understanding that they will take a straight line from the rear hoop to a front structure (probably dash hoop structure) and you must fit underneath this? Or you must be 2 inches below this line?

Roger

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by rogerwills

Back to the roll hoop question. I've looked at drawing K31 and also the diagram on page 185 of this document: http://wormhough.co.uk/Documents/150...afety)_(K).pdf

Regarding Monaco and a single seater, is the understanding that they will take a straight line from the rear hoop to a front structure (probably dash hoop structure) and you must fit underneath this? Or you must be 2 inches below this line?

Roger

fit under I think; see drawing K60 (ii) a couple of pages later on.

[Simon Hadfield]

Originally Posted by rogerwills

Back to the roll hoop question. I've looked at drawing K31 and also the diagram on page 185 of this document: http://wormhough.co.uk/Documents/150...afety)_(K).pdf

Regarding Monaco and a single seater, is the understanding that they will take a straight line from the rear hoop to a front structure (probably dash hoop structure) and you must fit underneath this? Or you must be 2 inches below this line?

Roger

Roger, see post 15.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

fit under I think; see drawing K60 (ii) a couple of pages later on.

missed the edit time limit, so apologies for referencing the same diagram a different way, you were there first!

[rogerwills]

[QUOTE=Simon Hadfield;3004497]

Originally Posted by midgetman

It's not just 2" above the helmeted head is it? The head must be 2" below a line running from the roll bar down to the next main structure, so if you don't have a front cage, that's probably the dash hoop which is little more than knee height. Which could be an issue for short legged drivers.

If the extensions don't count what do tall drivers do, Simon? New rear cages?

The rule is 50mm measured vertically to a "horizontal line" drawn from the top of the roll hoop. If there is any doubt ask - in the UK I guess this will not be taken too literally - I know that at Monaco and other overseas events it will be enforced. It is unfortunate that the MSA is very poor at passing this kind of information to the competitor, if you compare their efforts with some of the other ASNs we are rather floundering about in the dark!

I would make the point that there are some roll hoops that are under scrutiny at the moment - ask Alan Raine why he modified his PRS in period - ask poor Phil Lloyd if he would rather have had better roll hoop rules, or Simon Frostick. I know that there are always unfortunate accidents but when we do know better then it is cavalier in the extreme to do nothing, surely?

So Simon, is it definitely nothing to do with the frontal hoop? Only 50mm from top of roll hoop to top of driver's helmet?

[RICHARD.T]

For Monaco, will a F3 car need a certificate for the roll hoop?
They did not require one last time.

Out of interest, how would one go about getting one for a F3 Chevron?

[Simon Hadfield]

[QUOTE=rogerwills;3015673]

Originally Posted by Simon Hadfield

So Simon, is it definitely nothing to do with the frontal hoop? Only 50mm from top of roll hoop to top of driver's helmet?

The rule for FIA events is 50mm, measured vertically from the top of the helmet to the horizontal plane from the top of the roll hoop. The front hoop (or lack thereof) is not part of this requirement. I have also just double checked this with the chief architect of the roll hoop rule.

[terence]

As this ruling is now several season's old,I'm quite surprised the thread has been raised.

[356sc]

Page 156....

1.6.4. Other Considerations
(a) An effective rollbar must be fitted with its top edge
not less than 5cm above the helmet of the
normally seated driver.

off to measure mine!

[rogerwills]

Terribly sorry to bother you Terry!

It obviously doesn't affect you as you don't have a single seater that is Monaco eligible. But for those of us that do, we want to make 100% sure that the cars are ok.

You don't have to read the thread if you don't want to.......