[BTCC] BTCC 2021

[S griffin]

The Vauxhall backing was the main difference between them racing full time with two car and racing part time with one car with different drivers at different rounds

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by S griffin

The Vauxhall backing was the main difference between them racing full time with two car and racing part time with one car with different drivers at different rounds

Don’t be silly. 99% of press releases are 99% bs.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

The Vauxhall backing was the main difference between them racing full time with two car and racing part time with one car with different drivers at different rounds

Can you clarify this please?

Do you mean that Vauxhall not backing the team in 2020 meant that they could only run one car?

It was only ever/is a commercial partnership that saw Automotive Brands products in Vauxhall Dealerships, and the use of Vauxhall vans for the Automotive Brands fleet. Part of the agreement was that the race team would run a Vauxhall model in the BTCC.

https://powermaxedracing.com/blogs/news/130-pmr-vauxhall-in-btcc-from-2017

The team remains as a 'manufacturer' entry for 2021. They chose to run as an independent for 2020 for commercial reasons only. The commercial partnership between Automotive Brands and Vauxhall UK remains in place.

https://www.motorsport.com/btcc/news/plato-loses-vauxhall-drive-jackson/4827257/

[CarfanLUFC]

So is there serious doubt about JP being back at PMR in 2021? I thought it was all done and dusted but there we go. Tough times for all

[antnee]

Originally Posted by S griffin

The Vauxhall backing was the main difference between them racing full time with two car and racing part time with one car with different drivers at different rounds

No it wasn't. JP & Jackson weren't racing as their sponsors (mainly Flux I think) were deals based on providing hospitality. No hospitality = no money.

[S griffin]

They still would need Vauxhall’s blessing to run as a manufacturer. So they would still provide some funding, despite most of their budget coming from sponsorship and hospitality

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by S griffin

They still would need Vauxhall’s blessing to run as a manufacturer. So they would still provide some funding, despite most of their budget coming from sponsorship and hospitality

Vauxhall simply need to tick the box on the entry form that says 'we approve', metaphorically speaking, they don't need to provide any funding. There is a fee associated with a manufacturer entry (roughly £10K) but there is nothing to say which bank account that comes out of.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

They still would need Vauxhall’s blessing to run as a manufacturer. So they would still provide some funding, despite most of their budget coming from sponsorship and hospitality

They wouldn't need the blessing of Vauxhall.

There are three ways to be a manufacturer entry in the BTCC.
a) a manufacturer funds a team to run their cars.
b) a team enters into a partnership with a brand (manufacturer or dealer network), and enters as a manufacturer entry.
c) a team is deemed to have received support from a manufacturer that means they can't be considered as 'independent'.

options b and c can occur without any funds going from the manufacturer to the team.

[S griffin]

Sorry, but a manufacturer entry still makes a difference and gives a team stability that it might not otherwise have. Teams can run more established drivers for a start

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Sorry, but a manufacturer entry still makes a difference and gives a team stability that it might not otherwise have. Teams can run more established drivers for a start

Lol, don’t be silly (again)!

Are you just trying to liven up a dull Xmas or have you forgotten your medication (again)?

[thetool]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

They wouldn't need the blessing of Vauxhall.

In this case you are wrong and S griffin is actually right.

If Vauxhall didn't want them racing under the Vauxhall brand, they wouldn't be.

[BTCC frog]

I'm sure manufacturer backing makes a big difference to a team, even if it is just the extra money. If we look at the best teams of the last decade, almost all of them are manufacturers. The main two are WSR BMW and Team Dynamics Honda, but also Team BMR with the Subarus, Triple 8 with the MGs, Speedworks with the Toyota Corolas, RML with the Chevrolets. There are a few exceptions, such as Laser Tools this year (although personally, I think it was Sutton that made the difference), and teams that became manufacturers soon after doing well, such as WSR until 2014 and Speedworks until 2018. The only team that has stayed independent, and been a front-runner all this time is Motorbase, which shows just what a good team they are.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by thetool

In this case you are wrong and S griffin is actually right.

If Vauxhall didn't want them racing under the Vauxhall brand, they wouldn't be.

True. If they objected, they wouldn't be able to run as a manufacturer entry.
What I meant was, you don't need to have an explicit manufacturer agreement to be in the BTCC as a 'manufacturer'.

2016 is one such example. Two of the four 'manufacturer' entries didn't have explicit manufacturer backing. But they also didn't object either.

In the context of PMR/JP for 2021, they don't need Vauxhall backing to be a manufacturer entry. They also never received what would typically be understood as manufacturer support, so the question of whether Vauxhall are supporting PMR in 2021 is a mute point.

However, I'm sure there's plenty of legs in the discussion yet as we all clamour to score points over the tiniest of semantics. When in fact the reality is whether there is sufficient funds for a PMR/JP season - whether that comes from a manufacturer, a dealer network, personal sponsors, title sponsors or own funds is irrelevant.

[antnee]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Sorry, but a manufacturer entry still makes a difference and gives a team stability that it might not otherwise have. Teams can run more established drivers for a start

It really doesn't. As others have said, a manufacturer entry is simply a team who has paid the extra for the entry. Most of the deals actually provide very little to the running of the cars over a season, but do help in non-monetary ways. Actions such as Toyota UK sharing an image of TIngrams car, gets way more exposure for Tom's personal sponsors than they do through his own social media channels.

The PMR/Vauxhall deal was based around the UK sales company/parts company doing a business deal with the PM group which involved PM buying a load of Vauxhall vans I believe. It's not like the glory days of the 90's when Renault and Nissan were funding £10m per season.

[Pickles]

Team HARD have just posted on their Instagram 3 new cars in their workshop... a 1 Series and 2 A Classes.

Announcement tomorrow at 10am, and its a good one.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by Pickles

Team HARD have just posted on their Instagram 3 new cars in their workshop... a 1 Series and 2 A Classes.

Announcement tomorrow at 10am, and its a good one.

Sounds like Tony is forming the #HARDTCC!

More seriously, this can't all be BTCC, can it? Has Boardley/ AN Other acquired TBLs and wheels and #HARD are expanding to prep and run them? Sounds about like Warren's farm when 6 cars (Warrens + BKR) ran one year.

Definitely been 4 Leons clocked, but maybe not all 4 are destined to be race cars?

[antnee]

It wouldn't be that outrageous for them to work with TPR which would be 5 licences, not sure where #6 could be sourced from.

I think the Mercs will be used in TCT, Mr Lines is having a big push on the series for 2021. He seems to be acquiring TCR cars left, right and centre. I think there has been 5-6 bought since early November.

[S griffin]

Hang on, didn’t TPR merge with Excelr8? Therefore I doubt they would be interested in merging with HARD

However I wouldn’t rule out HARD running a satellite team or having a different team run out the same stable. The likes of Speedworks, AMD and BMR have done either

[antnee]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Hang on, didn’t TPR merge with Excelr8? Therefore I doubt they would be interested in merging with HARD

However I wouldn’t rule out HARD running a satellite team or having a different team run out the same stable. The likes of Speedworks, AMD and BMR have done either

Thats TPC (Trade Price Cars), TPR is Team Parker Racing. Too many acronyms!

[tallguy_2]

My moneys on HARD having a hand in 7 cars somehow

Boardley, maybe time to see him in a different manufacture of RWD, certainly seems comfortable in it

[porsche962fan]

Boardley in the Cicely 3 series ?? while Jelley at WSR and so another old car type (1 series) dissapears from the grid

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by Pickles

Team HARD have just posted on their Instagram 3 new cars in their workshop... a 1 Series and 2 A Classes.

Announcement tomorrow at 10am, and its a good one.

Wow. If only they would put some of that money into their own cars. Hopefully they're for TCT, would be very disappointing if they've gotten even more licenses when they can't run 1 car properly!

Seems very likely Jelley is off to WSR then, he owned that 1 series didn't he?

[Steel Wheels]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Wow. If only they would put some of that money into their own cars. Hopefully they're for TCT, would be very disappointing if they've gotten even more licenses when they can't run 1 car properly!

Seems very likely Jelley is off to WSR then, he owned that 1 series didn't he?

Agreed, though there are some TBL’s ‘looking for a new home’ from what I’ve heard. It’s all being kept quite guarded though and I know some on here know much more than me but are keeping quiet.

[Robshillito1990]

Cant see why Hard would want to run 3 old cars past their best in conjunction with their new Cupras would take resources away from that cars development.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Sorry, but a manufacturer entry still makes a difference and gives a team stability that it might not otherwise have. Teams can run more established drivers for a start

So, to be clear, are you saying if you are not Factory backed - with money - you cannot run decent drivers? Seems a bit odd