Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Classic Cars Monthly Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Historic Racing & Motorsport History > Historic Racing Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 3 Jan 2016, 18:48 (Ref:3601854)   #51
Mike Bell
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 14,830
Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Falce View Post
I'd never heard of it, just had to Google it. Why is it law abroad, have they not heard of a driver's card that goes in the tacho head? You can get all the info on the rules here Iain.
Mmm, I have never seen anything written suggesting a diary has to be kept in Euro-land. "Dear Diary, today I drove through luvly countryside......" One question to Iain though, do you know if the trucker fined was on digi or analogue tacho?


I was given a lift by someone the other day who IMO possesses very poor car control skills. This time, something new, they had a camera recorder thing dangling from the windscreen. Why, I asked? "Because I've been cut up badly so many times" was the reply. Today, 0800 Sunday morning, I followed a car through the centre of town (on my bicycle!) that was also being controlled pretty badly. Comparable to the previous example, I reckon. Guess what, it had a camera recorder dangling from the windscreen, and it was switched on!

Moral? Stay clear of cars with 'incident recording' cameras, as looks like they are most likely to be involved in one!
Mike Bell is offline  
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein)
Old 3 Jan 2016, 19:01 (Ref:3601858)   #52
Tim Falce
Race Official
Veteran
 
Tim Falce's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
England
Very edge of S E London almost in Kent
Posts: 11,141
Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Bell View Post

Moral? Stay clear of cars with 'incident recording' cameras, as looks like they are most likely to be involved in one!
I think some of them, especially some cyclists seen on youtube, go out looking for incidents as if to justify their purchase.
Tim Falce is offline  
Old 3 Jan 2016, 19:20 (Ref:3601866)   #53
Mike Bell
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 14,830
Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Falce View Post
I think some of them, especially some cyclists seen on youtube, go out looking for incidents as if to justify their purchase.
My "lift giver" mentioned above, in further discussion on their recorder device, slagged off cyclists that had them. How is that different to you having one in a car, I asked? The subject was changed.......

I don't see any cyclists around here with helmet cams, certainly have done in Londinium, though- usually riding aggressively!
Mike Bell is offline  
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein)
Old 3 Jan 2016, 19:25 (Ref:3601869)   #54
Paul D
Veteran
 
Paul D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
England
Southport, Merseyside
Posts: 820
Paul D should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridPaul D should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Bell View Post
Moral? Stay clear of cars with 'incident recording' cameras, as looks like they are most likely to be involved in one!

Maybe true Mike, but in this day and age where our roads are full of scumbags looking for a claim, I think they may soon become a necessary evil.

As you may have guessed, I was on the receiving end of one such incident last year, when a Polish scumbag tw*t deliberately aimed his car at me as I was pulling out from a side entry with the trailer (loaded with a valuable Morgan +8, I might add). There was ample time for me to emerge across his path without issue, but this prick decided to accelerate towards me and actually steered his car at me at the last second, succeeding in colliding with my trailer. Luckily, although his piece of sh*t Passat was a write off (the intention, of course), neither my trailer nor the Morgan thereon were damaged. However, in the absence of independent witnesses, it becomes a case of my word against his, and even though I know he acted deliberately to hit me, the chances are that my insurer will lose the case (currently still ongoing), despite the fact that the police officer who attended the scene told me that, in his (traffic officer, so I would say expert) opinion, the position of the Passat, the damage sustained to it and the positioning of debris tended to support my version of events.

Anyway, the point being that it's a crazy world these days, and as much as I hate to admit it, extra precautions sometimes have to be taken to protect ourselves from this sort of thing. Both me and my front seat passenger that day both clearly saw the guy steer his car at us just as he drew alongside - had I had a dashcam fitted and working at that time, I'd have had the ******* bang to rights as I'm sure it would have been pretty clear in the footage what he'd done. So instead of looking forward (potentially) to a nice little payout, the prick would, with any luck, be banged up by now for attempted fraud.

So, much as I hate having to give in to it, I'm afraid I will be using the dashcam that Santa brought me - at least, on any longer journey when I have the trailer behind me - you're just too much of an easy target to the scammers as they know that you can't manoeuvre or take evasive action quite as easily as you could normally, so I think it increases your chances of being targeted by them. A dashcam at least gives you a chance of proving what went down if there are no other witnesses.

I believe that just about every vehicle in the countries that many of these lowlifes hail from have dashcams fitted, because it's the only way to protect yourself from potentially spurious claims. I'm guessing it's a way of life in such places. Unfortunately, that's rapidly where we're heading in the UK too, unless something is done about it.
Paul D is offline  
__________________
"Light travels faster than sound - that's why, at first, some people appear bright... until you hear them speak!"
Old 3 Jan 2016, 20:37 (Ref:3601878)   #55
Mike Bell
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 14,830
Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!
Paul, I can see your point. My post was flippant, but i do believe there is a certain type of driver that attracts aggressive reactions from other drivers, due to their own poor skills! So they then feel the need to fit dash cams.

Recently, I was cruising along in van on a 40mph single carriageway near here at exactly the limit, when a Fiasco pulled straight out of Morrisons in front of me. Didn't even slow, let alone stop at the junction. I had to brake sharply down to the 25mph it was doing, and while doing so closed right up behind it. The passenger then turned round and pointed their phone at me, as if to take a pic of me 'tailgating', I guess! As you say, a dash camera would show the full story......... If I get one, it will be for the truck first and foremost.

Good luck with your case, not pleasant to go through all that.
Mike Bell is offline  
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein)
Old 3 Jan 2016, 20:39 (Ref:3601879)   #56
Tim Falce
Race Official
Veteran
 
Tim Falce's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
England
Very edge of S E London almost in Kent
Posts: 11,141
Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!
My company keeps saying they're going to fit dash cams to our trucks but unless they point them down the side as well as in front then a forward facing cam will be next to useless. I kid you not but I have at least one collision a year where someone will drive into the side of me, these are people that are along side and decide to change lanes but fail to see the truck. I had a near miss last week when a car alongside my offside decided he'd turn left, it's only that I did an emergency stop that saved a collision. I've also had one driver drive into my nearside as he was level with my cab but his damage was far worse than you would expect from the slight impact so I firmly believe this was a method of claiming for old damage.
Tim Falce is offline  
Old 3 Jan 2016, 23:06 (Ref:3601908)   #57
Moosehead
Veteran
 
Moosehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,368
Moosehead should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Bought a dashcam for the truck just before Christmas. The company is supposedly getting them fitted to all our trucks anyway but I felt the need for me to get one myself as there's just so many idiots out there. I must check the footage from the other night where a ****ed up cyclist with beer can in hand and no lights rode straight past me (my offside) and the police car in front of me across a set of red traffic lights - disapointed with the lack of reaction from the said police car. Nothing against cyclists, I'm an off road one myself.
Moosehead is offline  
__________________
CSCC Swinging Sixties #128 Red/Black Mustang
Old 4 Jan 2016, 06:32 (Ref:3601942)   #58
Mike Bell
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 14,830
Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by delta View Post
Gulp!!!. I have just read in the book that the Dover Calais crossing are not allowed to be used as rest period. There are no bunks or couchette. Think they have them on the new big ferries now.
Have been awake during night thinking about this. Cheers Iain! Just wondering if you have misinterpreted the book? AFAIK You can you use the 1.5hr crossing as a break during a 9/10hr working day, but obviously not a rest period between working days- The latter has to be 11hrs (reduced to 9 three times a week) normally!

Portsmouth Caen ferry is awkward, as on a night crossing you would expect to be able to drive straight off the next morning. BUT, the crossing is only 7/8hrs, so below the rest period. Apparently one should drive into the docks and park up for the rest of said rest period, and mark your records accordingly. On digi tacho you can tell it that you are on a ferry, but still haven't found out how to do so....

If I had the money, I would have a truck camera system that looks down the back and sides of my rig, as well as forward. Would make sense to upgrade it to record as well!

Bauble, hope you're taking this all in!
Mike Bell is offline  
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein)
Old 4 Jan 2016, 07:06 (Ref:3601945)   #59
delta
Subscriber
Veteran
 
delta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
United Kingdom
Reading UK
Posts: 8,693
delta has a real shot at the podium!delta has a real shot at the podium!delta has a real shot at the podium!delta has a real shot at the podium!delta has a real shot at the podium!
Sorry Mike . I will give you a call later . Better bring on Colin .
delta is offline  
Old 4 Jan 2016, 07:31 (Ref:3601948)   #60
midgetman
Veteran
 
midgetman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location:
Rural Wiltshire
Posts: 6,778
midgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Blimey makes me realise I'm best off staying below 3.5T for my race vans! When I was driving trucks I don't think it was so complicated.
midgetman is offline  
__________________
Midgetman - known as Max Tyler to the world. MaxAttaq!
Old 4 Jan 2016, 09:10 (Ref:3601956)   #61
Mike Bell
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 14,830
Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by midgetman View Post
Blimey makes me realise I'm best off staying below 3.5T for my race vans! When I was driving trucks I don't think it was so complicated.
This from a non gov site trying to put the regs into plain English-

"There are always queries. And Confusion. The sheer idiocy of making drivers subject to two sets of rules beggars belief."

It also says that when on a ferry or train, you must have access to a couchette or bunk IF taking a normal (11hr or 9hr) rest period during the 'voyage'. Suggests to me the crossing has to be at least that length of time, or you get off and park up for the remainder.... (It is allowed to interrupt the rest period up to twice for total of 1hr- In other words boarding and disembarking.) As Dover Calais and other short crossings are nowhere near long enough, no way can you take them as or add to a rest period.

Mike Bell is offline  
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein)
Old 4 Jan 2016, 09:21 (Ref:3601957)   #62
PeterMorley
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
United Kingdom
Belgium
Posts: 952
PeterMorley should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridPeterMorley should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moosehead View Post
Bought a dashcam for the truck just before Christmas. The company is supposedly getting them fitted to all our trucks anyway but I felt the need for me to get one myself as there's just so many idiots out there. I must check the footage from the other night where a ****ed up cyclist with beer can in hand and no lights rode straight past me (my offside) and the police car in front of me across a set of red traffic lights - disapointed with the lack of reaction from the said police car. Nothing against cyclists, I'm an off road one myself.
Belgian news this Christmas was that cyclists can be done for drink cycling like car drivers.
Turns out there was a legal ruling that cyclists are vehicles so if someone is caught drink cycling they can lose their driving licence, not sure what happens if they don't have a driving licence though.

Apparently dashcams are thought to be essential equipment in some parts of Eastern Europe where there are so many deliberate attempts at insurance claims.
Similarly Molenbeek (which most people have heard of these days) was notorious for people taking their priority from the right in their cars or even throwing themselves onto bonnets to get the insurance money (or persuade people to give them cash to avoid claims).
PeterMorley is offline  
__________________
"The problem with internet quotes is that you can't always depend on their accuracy" - Abraham Lincoln, 1864
Old 4 Jan 2016, 10:50 (Ref:3601972)   #63
delta
Subscriber
Veteran
 
delta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
United Kingdom
Reading UK
Posts: 8,693
delta has a real shot at the podium!delta has a real shot at the podium!delta has a real shot at the podium!delta has a real shot at the podium!delta has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by delta View Post
Gulp!!!. I have just read in the book that the Dover Calais crossing are not allowed to be used as rest period. There are no bunks or couchette. Think they have them on the new big ferries now.
Ok panic over, typical Rowley jumped in with both feet.You can't use Ferry Dover Calais for your "daily rest period". Sorry.
delta is offline  
Old 4 Jan 2016, 11:47 (Ref:3601980)   #64
Colin McKay
Veteran
 
Colin McKay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
United Kingdom
Posts: 1,685
Colin McKay should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridColin McKay should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
OK, I'm back at my desk now having done my best to forget all about tachos for the last 10 days until you lot spoilt it! Driver's rest rules do have a sort of logic but are nevertheless overcomplicated and in my opinion the ferry break rules in particular fly in the face of road safety, which is supposed to be what tachos were all about in the first place.

Re ferry (or train) breaks, you are allowed to interrupt a normal 11 hour break no more than twice and for a total of 1 hour which must then be added to the break ie an 11 hour break becomes 12 hours. This can only be done for the purpose of getting on or off a ferry (or train) and said conveyance must allow access to bunk or couchette.

The problem with recording non-tacho activity is a common one for "occasional" drivers who must be able to produce records for the previous 28 days when they drive an in-scope vehicle (generally over 3.5 tonnes). We give our drivers an "attestation" (see link below) if they've not driven for a while eg after a holiday, which is a set format document and has to be completed in type (ie not handwritten) and signed by driver & manager with a copy retained by both. This is accepted by authorities for professional HGV drivers but it's a bit more complicated if you only drive every now and then and this is where a detailed log book is normally used. You could also use the back of a paper tacho disc as you would if the tacho was broken, but you have to keep a record for every day between driving stints so a log book makes more sense than a pile of loose charts. However, the law merely requires that a record should be kept and doesn't specify the precise format. Those of us blessed with digital tachos can make manual entries on those.

Ideally, you need to show how your time is spent each day eg 00.01 - 08.00 daily rest, 08.01-12.00 other work, 12.01-13.00 break and so on through to 24.00. Tacho rules still apply to this non-driving time so you need to show adequate daily rest and don't forget to record weekly rest as well. You can't finish work on the car at midnight and set off in the truck at 6am. However we all know how the motorsport industry works and the problem for race truckies is that they might drive for a day or two and work all weekend before driving home and spending a few days in the workshop then do it all over again, which is clearly in breach of both Working Time and tacho rules. You could be tempted to erroneously record non-tacho time, but the Man from the Ministry isn't daft and will use wage slips, email records, mobile phone logs etc to prove that someone was working when they claim to have been on rest. Whether they have the will or resources to do this when there is easier meat to be found elsewhere is another matter. I think the priority for most drivers will be to avoid trouble at a roadside check so having clear records with you at the time will reduce the risk of a follow-up visit to your office which is when the worm can will well and truly empty out.

Slightly off the original topic, but perhaps more of a roadside risk than tacho infringements (because it's so easy to detect), is the lack of a Driver CPC card which I'm sure a lot of casual and part time drivers might not have due to the disproportionate (IMO) investment in time & money needed to achieve it when they may only drive on odd occasions. Without this card the driving licence is only valid for purely personal use, so any form of commercial driving over 3.5T cannot be undertaken. I think this will become a real issue as the enforcement authorities tighten up on what is still relatively new legislation. Penalties are already commonplace.

If you haven't already lost the will to live (I'm getting close) this is an exerpt from the VOSA (now DVSA) guide which can be enjoyed in its entirety at https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...and-europe.pdf This is a 2011 document and some minor changes have since been made, but generally is still holds good. There are however a couple of points I would make about the guidance below, firstly the advice to keep records only for the current week is at odds with the general requirement to keep records for 28 days, so I would always do the latter. Secondly, simply showing start and finish times on non-driving days may not satisfy a suspicious official at a roadside check, I would always record full details:

Recording other work
Drivers must record all other work and periods of availability – including work for other employers – on all driving and non-driving days within a week where they have undertaken driving that comes within the scope of the EU rules on drivers’ hours since their last weekly rest.
For example, a driver who works in a warehouse on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday and wishes to drive a vehicle within the scope of the EU rules on Thursday of the same week must complete records
for Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.
The record must be either:
u written manually on a chart;
u written manually on a printout from a digital tachograph;
u made by using the manual input facility of a digital tachograph; or
u for days where a driver has been subject to the domestic drivers’ hours rules and a record is legally required (see page 27), recorded in a domestic log book.
For the non-driving days, the record may simply show the driver’s name, the date, and the start and finish of the shift. These records must be carried on the vehicle by the driver to be produced to enforcement officers for the relevant period (see individual sections on how to make manual entries).
Information to operators
A driver who is at the disposal of more than one transport undertaking must provide each undertaking with sufficient information to allow them to make sure the rules are being met.
Rest and other days off
The period of time unaccounted for between successive charts produced by a driver should normally be regarded as (unless there is evidence to the contrary) a rest period when drivers are able to dispose freely of their time. In the UK, drivers are not expected to account for this period, unless enforcement authorities have reason to believe that they were working. Nevertheless, on international journeys it is recommended that letters of attestation from the employer are provided for drivers travelling through other countries to cover any sick leave, annual leave and time spent driving a vehicle which is out of scope of EU/AETR rules during the preceding 28 days. An EU approved attestation form can be downloaded from:
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road/p...al_form_en.htm
Colin McKay is offline  
__________________
Semper ubi sub ubi
Old 4 Jan 2016, 11:58 (Ref:3601982)   #65
Colin McKay
Veteran
 
Colin McKay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
United Kingdom
Posts: 1,685
Colin McKay should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridColin McKay should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Can I go home now please?
Colin McKay is offline  
__________________
Semper ubi sub ubi
Old 4 Jan 2016, 12:09 (Ref:3601983)   #66
grantp
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,369
grantp should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridgrantp should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridgrantp should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Good grief Colin.

Looks like a Phd required for that lot.

I wonder if we could have the same sort of records for politicians and civil servants? It might help us to understand them and their decisions.

I would image that the work required to research and prepare that post probably means your administrative diary working hours records indicate you must now have an extended break to avoid performance impairment.

About a week I would suggest - civil service standards to be followed.
grantp is offline  
Old 4 Jan 2016, 13:04 (Ref:3601991)   #67
Mike Bell
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 14,830
Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin McKay View Post
Can I go home now please?
No.

Thanks Colin. I don't find it easy to write on the back of tacho printouts so will get a small diary to use instead!

Think the original confusion was between a break (during a shift) and rest period (between shifts). Hope that's sorted, anyway!

Regarding Driver CPC, I know when it first came up, VOSA confirmed that if your truck was being used to carry equipment to a location, as opposed to goods for sale, the CPC wasn't needed. Hope that's still the case!

Mike Bell is offline  
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein)
Old 4 Jan 2016, 14:34 (Ref:3601997)   #68
GORDON STREETER
Veteran
 
GORDON STREETER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Spain
Kent+Mojacar Spain, but not always ?
Posts: 9,400
GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!
Of course all our friends from Eastern Europe have got the same sort of rules, haven't they !
GORDON STREETER is offline  
__________________
Balls of steel (knob of butter) They're Asking For Larkins. ( Proper beer) not you're Eurofizz crap. Hace más calor en España. Me han conocido a hablar un montón cojones! Send any cheques and cash to PO box 1 Lagos Nigeria Africa !
Old 4 Jan 2016, 14:58 (Ref:3602002)   #69
Colin McKay
Veteran
 
Colin McKay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
United Kingdom
Posts: 1,685
Colin McKay should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridColin McKay should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Ref the DCPC, exemptions are listed below but note the rider attached to the DVSA guide: This guide sets out examples and tells you if the Driving and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) thinks you’d be exempt in those situations. However, this doesn’t carry any legal weight. !!!

There are 2 exemptions listed that may apply to motorsport use (Drivers A & J under "Vehicles carrying material or equipment to be used in the course of the driver’s work") but I think it very unlikely that they would. I have shown all the examples under this heading but in the real world, and knowing (or thinking I know) the intention of the legislation, whereas a mechanic transporting only tools & equipment for his own use might be exempt I don't think the transport of cars would, unless only driven by the driver of the truck, and frankly even then it's unlikely as the owner of the car would likely be deemed the "user" because it's being raced on their behalf. As DVSA say in the guide, only a court can decide. Who would like to be first?


Vehicles that aren’t allowed to exceed 45 kilometres per hour

Vehicles being used by or under the control of the armed forces, police, a local authority or fire and rescue authority

Vehicles being road tested or new or rebuilt vehicles which haven’t been put into service

Vehicles driven to and from pre-booked appointments at official testing centres

Vehicles being used in emergencies or rescue missions

Vehicles being used for driving lessons or driving tests

Non-commercial carriage of passengers or goods for personal use

Vehicles driven within 50 km of the driver’s base and not carrying passengers or goods

Vehicles carrying material or equipment to be used in the course of the driver’s work
You don’t need Driver CPC if you’re carrying equipment or material that you’ll use in the course of your work, provided that driving the vehicle isn’t the main part of your job.


This includes:
  • trade tools
  • goods such as building materials or cables to be used by the driver in the course of their work
  • extra crew like a mechanics mate or any other person needed for the job
Driver A

Driver A is a mobile lorry fitter. They drive a vehicle from one operator’s site to another site where they take their tools from the vehicle to do their main activity of servicing lorries. They don’t need Driver CPC. They would also be covered by the exemption if they use an engine diagnostic kit that’s fixed within the vehicle, because the vehicle carries material or equipment for their use on site.

Driver B

Driver B is a self-employed bricklayer and drives their lorry to a building site with a load of bricks. They unload the bricks and use them in the construction of a house. They don’t need to have Driver CPC because driving the lorry isn’t their main activity and they’re carrying materials for their use in the course of bricklaying.

Driver C

Driver C drives a lorry with a generator fixed to the bed of the vehicle. Driving isn’t their main activity. They drive to road maintenance sites where the generator is used to power site equipment. They do various tasks at the site including monitoring the generator to make sure it’s operating correctly and they provide the site with a power supply. They don’t need to have Driver CPC.

Driver D

Driver D works in the stores department of a company that supplies car parts. Occasionally, they need to drive one of the company’s lorries to deliver parts to retail outlets. Although the driving occupies only a very small amount of their working time, they need to have Driver CPC when making those deliveries because they’re driving a vehicle which is carrying materials for someone else’s use.

Driver E

Driver E is a farmer. On an average of once a month, they transport some of their livestock to a local cattle market for auction. They need to have Driver CPC when doing this, as they’re not carrying materials or equipment for their use in the course of their work –they’re carrying cattle intended for sale.

Driver F

Driver F is a farmer. Twice a month they drive a lorry on public roads around their farm, repairing fences. The vehicle carries the tools and materials they need to make these repairs. They don’t need to have Driver CPC because they’re carrying materials to be used by them in the course of their work repairing fences.

Driver G

Driver G is employed by a farmer as a labourer. Twice a day they drive a minibus under a D1 driving licence, transporting workers from the local town to various fields on the farm. The driving activity takes up a relatively small proportion of their day. The majority of their shift is spent with the other workers picking crops. They need to have Driver CPC because they’re transporting the other labourers – they’re not carrying materials or equipment.

Driver H

Driver H is a farm labourer. Their normal duties include transporting livestock and crops around the farm in a lorry. They need to have Driver CPC when driving on public roads while doing this as they’re carrying goods intended for sale, as opposed to materials or equipment.

Driver I

Driver I is employed as a mobile crane operator. They drive the vehicle with the crane to a building site where they operate the crane helping to build a new factory. They don’t need to have Driver CPC because their main activity isn’t driving and they’re carrying tools and materials (the crane) to be used in the course of their work.

Driver J

Driver J is employed as a mechanic by a transport company. As part of their responsibilities they drive a lorry containing tools and equipment needed to change wheels at the roadside. They don’t need to have Driver CPC because driving isn’t their main activity and they’re carrying tools and materials to be used in the course of their work.
Colin McKay is offline  
__________________
Semper ubi sub ubi
Old 4 Jan 2016, 15:08 (Ref:3602003)   #70
gary396
Veteran
 
gary396's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
United Kingdom
Northallerton
Posts: 2,186
gary396 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridgary396 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Bauble's going to have a fit with all of this tachograph talk!
gary396 is online now  
__________________
Gary Clarke
Old 4 Jan 2016, 15:10 (Ref:3602004)   #71
Colin McKay
Veteran
 
Colin McKay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
United Kingdom
Posts: 1,685
Colin McKay should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridColin McKay should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by grantp View Post
Looks like a Phd required for that lot.
That was an example of some of the simpler stuff relating to driver's hours. Every truck driver is expected to understand it and when they get it wrong they can lose both their licence and livelihood. An overhaul is long overdue, but we'd probably end up with something even worse. It just seems so unnecessarily complicated.
Colin McKay is offline  
__________________
Semper ubi sub ubi
Old 4 Jan 2016, 15:12 (Ref:3602005)   #72
Colin McKay
Veteran
 
Colin McKay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
United Kingdom
Posts: 1,685
Colin McKay should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridColin McKay should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by gary396 View Post
Bauble's going to have a fit with all of this tachograph talk!
OK, OK. I promise to revert to my usual superficiality.

As soon as I've had a lie down
Colin McKay is offline  
__________________
Semper ubi sub ubi
Old 4 Jan 2016, 15:37 (Ref:3602009)   #73
bauble
Veteran
 
bauble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
England
Potton, far from the madding crowd.
Posts: 9,598
bauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by gary396 View Post
Bauble's going to have a fit with all of this tachograph talk!
I just ignore all of the problems of others, anyway with Mrs B being incapacitated I am far too busy to be distracted by lengthy treatise on the vagaries of Eurononesense. Let Mike and Delta deal with it ..........or not!

When I get a chance I take time to spend my I Tunes and Amazon vouchers left over from Christmas.

Perhaps Colin will give us a precis of all of that earlier claptrap, and save me falling too far behind the discussion in case I can make one of my usual informative and incisive insights to the conversation.

Brexit for ever!
bauble is offline  
__________________
When asking; "Is he joking?" Best assume yes!
Old 4 Jan 2016, 15:57 (Ref:3602014)   #74
Tim Falce
Race Official
Veteran
 
Tim Falce's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
England
Very edge of S E London almost in Kent
Posts: 11,141
Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bauble View Post

Perhaps Colin will give us a precis of all of that earlier claptrap, and save me falling too far behind the discussion in case I can make one of my usual informative and incisive insights to the conversation.

Brexit for ever!
Maybe Colin could give us a precis of what makes women tick, it'd be easier to understand.


Anyway while on the subject of utterly stupid EU rules I've just remembered I have 7 hours of utter boredom Thursday next week for part 6 of my CPC, which will be exactly the same as parts 1,2,3,4 and 5
Tim Falce is offline  
Old 4 Jan 2016, 16:16 (Ref:3602018)   #75
Mike Harte
Veteran
 
Mike Harte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
United Kingdom
W. Yorkshire
Posts: 5,467
Mike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
With all this guff about the Driver's CPC, it got me thinking about my own driving licence, so had a a quick looksie at the DVLA about what I am entitled to drive. Good thing that I did, as it reminds me that in a few months' time I have to renew it when I reach 3 score and ten.

Yet even that renewal is not straight-forward and is confusing. It would seem as though if I want renew my ability to drive C1 and C1E class vehicles (upto 7.5 tonnes) you cannot do it online. I fail to see why not; surely any question that needs to be answered could be included online, and shouldn't need a piece of paper. But then the Gov dot uk website tells me that the C1 entitlement needs to be renewed annually after your 65th birthday, but mine is still current even though I am 69 and will remain so until the day before my next birthday. Talk about confusing!
Mike Harte is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Iain's (Delta Racing Car) Builder's Tea Break 2015 Peter Mallett Historic Racing Today 2608 10 Jan 2016 11:28
Delta's tea-break thingy, the lighter wassname - 2013 Peter Mallett Historic Racing Today 2719 1 Jan 2014 12:38
Delta's Tea-Break Natter (The Lighter Side) 2011/12 John Turner Historic Racing Today 3787 3 Jan 2013 10:05
Delta's Tea-Break Natter (The Lighter Side) 2011 Peter Mallett Historic Racing Today 2796 21 Nov 2011 09:57


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:01.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.