THE F1 COVID THREAD: Will GP be cancelled?

[Casper]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Austin will probably not run two races, no. However I am expecting the USGP still to happen at this stage. As for Mexico and Brazil, we have to wait and see

Apparently there are literally no beds available in any hospital that F1 would use for care in case of an accident or any other reason medical care for the group is needed. Things will change, they might even get worse.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Casper

Apparently there are literally no beds available in any hospital that F1 would use for care in case of an accident or any other reason medical care for the group is needed. Things will change, they might even get worse.

And other reports of no COVID beds, most hospitals retain a few emergency beds outside of their vent/Covid care protocols. And a few reports from UT Health and the state board that reports of being full are not accurate so pick your source and go with it I guess.

[Richard C]

I believe they can expand up/down as needed, but some are at (or beyond) the levels that they want to be at. But I suspect the situation is less about space (although some have had to create additional space to support the pandemic) and rather maybe about staffing issues (limited staff, staff burn-out due to ongoing high workloads/hours, etc.). So the problem is real.

Regardless. We know of the requirement that a medical helicopter be able to transport emergency patients. And if the weather is bad enough to ground the helicopter, the event/session can't take place. Can anyone point to a document that the FIA uses to determine the minimal requirements to run an event (or session at an event). I can imagine they may require something like a level 1 trauma center be within a specific minimal flight time. However, do they go the next step and look at local conditions at that trauma center (such as available beds... or can the facility currently support X number of level 1 trauma cases) during the period of the event?

I suspect (looking at thing today) they can support emergency situations. What they are not doing is elective or non-critical surgeries, etc. And of course the worn out staff would love for everyone to just go get vaccinated!

Richard

[S griffin]

It would be quite a political nightmare if F1 had a GP in a location that could hinder medical places that treat covid patients, especially if the area is near critical

[chillibowl]

given the number of sporting events which have already taken place in 'hot spots', will it really be a problem for F1 to do likewise?

at this point, sports seems to have been largely given a pass no?

cynical of me to say, but ability to travel without quarantine rules seems to be a bigger factor then local hospital capacity.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by S griffin

It would be quite a political nightmare if F1 had a GP in a location that could hinder medical places that treat covid patients, especially if the area is near critical

If the local hospitals are not able to handle critical emergencies, then there is a larger issue. At that point a significant regular car crash, etc. would put them over the top. And that can happen at any time. My point being that if local resources are REALLY stretched that thin, hosting an F1 race would likely not happen. But I suspect we are far from that.

Somewhat answering my own question above. I think there is really no way to easily measure local medical capacity at local hospitals in a way that would work for F1. When FP1 is about to start, does race control phone the local hospital and say "how many beds to you have ight this minute?" Even if they get an answer they like, that value could deteriorate seconds after they hang up the phone.

Note, I am not advocating for/against having the GP in COTA for 2021 or trying to downplay the current Covid situation.

Richard

[S griffin]

It depends how bad the situation is and how bad the quarantine is and how much it will impact the medical situation there

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by S griffin

It depends how bad the situation is and how bad the quarantine is and how much it will impact the medical situation there

One thing to note given we are talking US GP. Broadly speaking the word "quarantine" does not exist here with respect to the topic of Covid.

What is discussed here is...

* Who is vaccinated or not
* Are kids in classroom or virtual
* What level of local (state/county/city) mandates (usually masks, but sometimes number of people) are in place.
* Business starting to impose vaccination requirements
* Infection numbers and impact to healthcare system (to a much lesser degree)

From a sporting perspective, there is occasional discussion about whatever protocols any given series has in place.

Richard

[S griffin]

F1 has continued to follow protocol wherever it’s gone, so there’s no reason why they shouldn’t if and when they go to Austin

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

We know of the requirement that a medical helicopter be able to transport emergency patients. And if the weather is bad enough to ground the helicopter, the event/session can't take place. Can anyone point to a document that the FIA uses to determine the minimal requirements to run an event (or session at an event).

Appendix H of the International Sporting Code, Section 2.8.3.8.

c) In some cases, a timed event may
deprived of the use of a helicopter for a
brief or extended period of time, in
particular:
- For circumstantial reasons, notably:
the helicopter has left for the transfer of
a casualty, and there is no means of
replacing it immediately.
- Due to weather conditions, notably:
no helicopter can land on the circuit or
take off from the circuit, or cannot fly in
the direction of / land on the helipad of
one or more hospitals.

etc, etc.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Greem

Appendix H of the International Sporting Code

Thank you. I am a bit of a regulation geek and always like to see what is actually spelled out.

I scanned through the document. I may have missed something, but broadly it seems the focus (for this topic) is on...

* Capabilities at the on-site medical center and track itself.
* Transportation capabilities (helicopter, etc.)
* Local hospital capabilities (limited scope)

There is also apparently an overall "emergency plan" that is to deal with many situations including when something is so large it overwhelms the capabilities of the on-site medical center. While the structure of those plans might be somewhat boilerplate, I would think that these days they should address Covid/pandemic impacts in those plans.

As to local hospital capabilities, there is a check to make sure they have adequate surgical staff for a few specialties (imagine treating serious trauma) as well as appropriate blood supply. Nothing about available beds. There is to be a check-in/coordination with the hospital no later than 2 months prior to an F1 event. There is a desire for conditions at the hospital to not change on the run-up to the event outside of force majeure.

Areas that I think might be of concern by my reading.

1. It doesn't take into account dynamic situations. The document broadly assumes that if the hospital has staff and blood, then they are good. No mention of capacity.
2. What happens if things change after that 2 month check-in? I assume a big Covid spike might be a force majeure event with respect to local medical capabilities?
3. There is also paramedic needs for the event. I know that during some Covid peaks in the US that there was a real shortage of paramedic staff with people having to wait hours to get ambulance service to hospitals. I expect the event would pull in spare resources from the general Austin area, but if they are short handed, then it might be difficult to staff the event. I say this without knowing how many resources they ask to be on-sight for an F1 race.

Overall, like most FIA regulations. There is "as written" and "as actually implemented". I expect that if in the run-up to the event that it is clear that the local hospitals can't service the event in the spirit the F1/FIA wants, that someone will ring the alarm bells. There is a concept of a "Chief Medical Officer" called out in those regulations. I don't know if that is a FIA role that is event specific or might be a role that is filled for the season. Either way, it sounds like it would be the responsibility of that person to ring the alarm bells if they feel local medical infrastructure is at risk as it seems to be on them to coordinate all of these items.

Richard

[Greem]

The FIA CMO for Formula One is Dr Ian Roberts. The guy who hoiked Romain Grosjean over the barrier in Bahrain last year.

He doesn't just spend race weekends sitting on his butt in a fancy car!

[john ruston]

With NFL starting and kids Chuck ball on Saturdays the USGP should not be under any possibility of cancellation despite it being in Texas who along with Florida own some of the stupidest politicians in the Western World. These days you have to be extremely stupid to earn that title
Mexico and Brazil will almost certainly be cancelled with these areas on red list
Turkey also has a problem.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Thank you. I am a bit of a regulation geek and always like to see what is actually spelled out.

I scanned through the document. I may have missed something, but broadly it seems the focus (for this topic) is on...

* Capabilities at the on-site medical center and track itself.
* Transportation capabilities (helicopter, etc.)
* Local hospital capabilities (limited scope)

There is also apparently an overall "emergency plan" that is to deal with many situations including when something is so large it overwhelms the capabilities of the on-site medical center. While the structure of those plans might be somewhat boilerplate, I would think that these days they should address Covid/pandemic impacts in those plans.

As to local hospital capabilities, there is a check to make sure they have adequate surgical staff for a few specialties (imagine treating serious trauma) as well as appropriate blood supply. Nothing about available beds. There is to be a check-in/coordination with the hospital no later than 2 months prior to an F1 event. There is a desire for conditions at the hospital to not change on the run-up to the event outside of force majeure.

Areas that I think might be of concern by my reading.

1. It doesn't take into account dynamic situations. The document broadly assumes that if the hospital has staff and blood, then they are good. No mention of capacity.
2. What happens if things change after that 2 month check-in? I assume a big Covid spike might be a force majeure event with respect to local medical capabilities?
3. There is also paramedic needs for the event. I know that during some Covid peaks in the US that there was a real shortage of paramedic staff with people having to wait hours to get ambulance service to hospitals. I expect the event would pull in spare resources from the general Austin area, but if they are short handed, then it might be difficult to staff the event. I say this without knowing how many resources they ask to be on-sight for an F1 race.

Overall, like most FIA regulations. There is "as written" and "as actually implemented". I expect that if in the run-up to the event that it is clear that the local hospitals can't service the event in the spirit the F1/FIA wants, that someone will ring the alarm bells. There is a concept of a "Chief Medical Officer" called out in those regulations. I don't know if that is a FIA role that is event specific or might be a role that is filled for the season. Either way, it sounds like it would be the responsibility of that person to ring the alarm bells if they feel local medical infrastructure is at risk as it seems to be on them to coordinate all of these items.

Richard

There is an inspection process that goes into the quality of the local hospital, the distance the hospital is from the track, the qualifications of the medical staff on hand, the supplies and operating theatres that need to be on hand during the event. It is very thorough and would be under Michael Massi's control now. The rules may not be in the sporting rules, but will be covered in the circuit certification. I believe Melbourne does not need a helicopter because the major hospital is practically on site, being just across the road immediately outside the circuit and the road is kept open for exclusive use of patient transfer throughout the event.

There is also the Grand Prix Medical unit that attends events in Europe, that is capable of emergency stabilization of two patients concurrently - not up to date on this. All circuits that are not able to use this are forced to build and staff (whose qualifications and competency are certified by whoever replaced Sid Watkins) a hospital for this emergency stabilization.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by wnut

...I believe Melbourne does not need a helicopter because the major hospital is practically on site, being just across the road immediately outside the circuit and the road is kept open for exclusive use of patient transfer throughout the event...

did not know that. interesting.

a nice selling feature for tracks set up next to hospitals. and i would also guess that the need to have a hospital with specific facilities and units available nearby as a prerequisite has lent itself to seeing these local hospitals (along with other required infrastructure) receive upgrades over the years in order for the area to maintain their events.

so is it possible that the local area hospital (the hospital used in Austin in this case) has already made the upgrades required (add beds/staff) to both host the GP and to deal with their local covid responsibilities?

rather, because they knew the GP was coming during covid, they may have taken steps to ensure their covid care is not compromised. perhaps even a step they would not have considered had the GP been canceled outright?

obviously just speculating and maybe this is wishful thinking, but sports can have ancillary benefits to local communities beyond just restaurant and hotel usage.

[john ruston]

Seems you can have an Open Tennis Tournament but not a GP?

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Seems you can have an Open Tennis Tournament but not a GP?

sure but didnt the tennis players all have to quarantine in a local hotel?

F1's concern is they cant and/or dont want to quarantine.

[john ruston]

Understand they are negotiating a bubble for the Open as reported today. Not same limits as earlier this year

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Understand they are negotiating a bubble for the Open as reported today. Not same limits as earlier this year

That is a political battle that requires agreement between state and federal governments.Given the current Covid situation in Australia that seems a long way off.I would bet on Aus Open or rather it’s replacement as Grand Slam event taking place in Middle East next year.

[Casper]

I doubt any tennis player will volunteer for hotel quarantine again if their reaction to last year is anything to go by. At the moment it is political pistols at ten paces and we will see who is still standing when the shooting stops. The natives are getting restless and the pollies are ducking for cover hoping the storm will not blow their house down.

[Anyopenroad]

Originally Posted by Casper

At the moment it is political pistols at ten paces and we will see who is still standing when the shooting stops. The natives are getting restless and the pollies are ducking for cover hoping the storm will not blow their house down.

I think that must be a Tentenths record for the number of metaphors in a single paragraph

[S griffin]

With Turkey in the red zone, there’s a good chance the GP will be cancelled for a second. Mugello has been named as a possible replacement, so watch this space

[Adam43]

Take title of the first ever world championship GP ever! At Silverstone. Before people got so worked up about such things.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by S griffin

With Turkey in the red zone....

Is this part of a recipe instruction....? Turn down the gas.....

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Is this part of a recipe instruction....? Turn down the gas.....

The country is a bit stuffed atm