[WEC] 2018-2019 WEC Super Season

[Scorchess]

I like that idea, more races! Might also be good to get the people interested that say they don't have time to watch a 6 hour race.

[Articus]

Good to hear the new Aston testing next week. I also can't remember where I picked this up, but I believe BMW's M8 GTE car hit the track last week.

[AoB Special Stage]

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2017/0...r-at-cota.html

Quick roundup of recent developments.

[chernaudi]

In LMP1, if Porsche decide to leave, then Toyota will have to decide what to do. Will they get what in theory should be an easy win, or will they leave because of a lack of direct competition?

IMO, we're getting mixed messages from Toyota. They say that they race mostly for R&D value, but at the same time they've stated a preference for at least one other team to be a direct competitor.

The best thing is that if both Porsche and Toyota leave, it could make LMP1 at LM and the WEC next year a free for all. The slate will be entirely wiped clean, which is something that hasn't happened to such a degree for nearly 25 years.

[MaskedRacer]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

In LMP1, if Porsche decide to leave, then Toyota will have to decide what to do. Will they get what in theory should be an easy win, or will they leave because of a lack of direct competition?

IMO, we're getting mixed messages from Toyota. They say that they race mostly for R&D value, but at the same time they've stated a preference for at least one other team to be a direct competitor.

The best thing is that if both Porsche and Toyota leave, it could make LMP1 at LM and the WEC next year a free for all. The slate will be entirely wiped clean, which is something that hasn't happened to such a degree for nearly 25 years.

The last real free for all was back in 1995 and that was the year the McLarens won overall. The year before in 1994 was crazy too. The Dauer 962 won as a quasi GT1 car. Cool to note the Nissan GTS cars that won the 36 hours of Florida entered Le Mans and finished 5th.

I agree with your statement for sure. I think we'll know what Porsche does by the end of the month. I hope Toyota will decide quickly what to do after that. The privateer teams won't do anything until both manufacturers announce their intentions.

Then again Toyota could pull something like a Le Mans only run in 2018.

[chernaudi]

As far as I'm concerned, in my opinion, Toyota will either be gone at the end of the season dependent on what Porsche does, or they'll run the full season next year. I don't think the ACO will be too happy to let Toyota do a LM only program, or even a partial season program (Silverstone, Spa, LM and Fuji depending on the 2018 schedule).

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

As far as I'm concerned, in my opinion, Toyota will either be gone at the end of the season dependent on what Porsche does, or they'll run the full season next year. I don't think the ACO will be too happy to let Toyota do a LM only program, or even a partial season program (Silverstone, Spa, LM and Fuji depending on the 2018 schedule).

Is the WEC even allowed to exist if Porsche pulls out of LMP1 under their own bylaws?

[chernaudi]

I've asked that because the WEC is a multi-class formula. In GTE, you have four car makers involved (Porsche, Ferrari, Ford and Aston Martin). That's more than twice what the FIA recommend for a World Championship. You also have to remember that the FIA also gave WC status to the SRO's GT1 World Championship, even though there were no factory teams involved.

So do they count car makers by marque, or by direct factory involvement? And what do the rules say about a series with multiple classes in it?

[Akrapovic]

I've always wondered what is required to call someone a manufacturer. For example, the 1995 F1 season had 1 works team - Ferrari. All of the rest were private entries using engine supplies.

So why is that not acceptable now? Why do you need a full factory effort? Why is a Nissan engine in a ByKolles not the same as a Renault engine in a Williams? As chernaudi correctly points out, the GT1 World Championship involved no manufacturers and was a world championship.

I never really understood why there needs to be direct manufacturer involvement in all aspects of the car to classify it as a world championship. It's a championship...that goes around the world.

[deggis]

There is the FIA Sporting Code which at least used to have some requirements for World Championship, but it is often repeated in media the contract between ACO and FIA stipulates at least two manufacturers in the World Endurance Manufacturers' Championship. If that's what it literally says, then clearly GTE won't count.

I remember in 2012 there was talk about a plan B to get HPD/Strakka counted as a manufacturer before Toyota committed to full season.

It could be just up to FIA to decide what to do and whether GTE might be a backup. Makes little sense to take away the World Championship status only to possibly reinstate it two years later if situation improves.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by deggis

I remember in 2012 there was talk about a plan B to get HPD/Strakka counted as a manufacturer before Toyota committed to full season.

Well, come to think of it, why wouldn't Ginetta count? They're a manufacturer of motor vehicles. Could you not stick an Alpine badge on the engine (Mecachrome, they're french) and have another?

[chernaudi]

Anymore I don't think that the ACO or FIA half the time know what they're taking about anyways, considering that both bodies can enforce whatever rules however they want, or don't enforce them.

[gustavobamba]

Am I the only one to think that this new deal "Joest & Mazda" could bring them back to Le Mans in the new set of rules in 2020?!?!?!

[Articus]

Originally Posted by gustavobamba

Am I the only one to think that this new deal "Joest & Mazda" could bring them back to Le Mans in the new set of rules in 2020?!?!?!

you are not alone.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Articus

you are not alone.

Naw, the DPi campaign (even when factoring in the Joest mark-up) will still be less than 20% of what one needs to spend on a P1 program... I don't think Mazda have that kind of cash lying around.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by gustavobamba

Am I the only one to think that this new deal "Joest & Mazda" could bring them back to Le Mans in the new set of rules in 2020?!?!?!

We could dream with a Penske Honda too!!!!

[Scorchess]

Originally Posted by gustavobamba

Am I the only one to think that this new deal "Joest & Mazda" could bring them back to Le Mans in the new set of rules in 2020?!?!?!

Hey if Joest can convince the real Mazda to step in then I don't see why not!

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Naw, the DPi campaign (even when factoring in the Joest mark-up) will still be less than 20% of what one needs to spend on a P1 program... I don't think Mazda have that kind of cash lying around.

I think a DPI can race in LMP1-P.
They must reduce the weight to 830 kg, modify the suspension for the Michelin or Dunlop and an aerodynamic package for Le Mans.

[Adam43]

Le Mans is saved! Hurrah!

Le Mans is where it is at, rather than F1 with their small number of manufacturers.

Although can I be the first to say that it is clear Mazda will pull out of Le Mans.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Le Mans is saved! Hurrah!

Le Mans is where it is at, rather than F1 with their small number of manufacturers.

Although can I be the first to say that it is clear Mazda will pull out of Le Mans.

Mazda are staying until 2040. With an all electric diesel. My sources told me. They'll also be at the Nurburgring last week.

[Adam43]

The Joest Mazda tie up is great news. I am looking forward to it, but I'm not going to get ahead of myself. It's a shame it isn't until next year, but that does make sense.

[AoB Special Stage]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

So do they count car makers by marque, or by direct factory involvement? And what do the rules say about a series with multiple classes in it?

By marque, and idk.

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I've always wondered what is required to call someone a manufacturer. For example, the 1995 F1 season had 1 works team - Ferrari. All of the rest were private entries using engine supplies.

Engine suppliers are counted as manufacturers as long as they produce road cars.

You need four manufacturers to apply for World Championship status, but only two to keep it, so I'm assuming there is some interpretation of classes together. (P1 and P2 counted together maybe?)

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Mazda are staying until 2040. With an all electric diesel. My sources told me. They'll also be at the Nurburgring last week.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by AoB Special Stage

Engine suppliers are counted as manufacturers as long as they produce road cars.

Nissan in the ByKolles in 2018. Ginetta produce road cars. Stick an Alpine badge on a Mecachrome (since they won't be allowed to do that in LMP2 come 2018), job done?

[AoB Special Stage]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Nissan in the ByKolles in 2018. Ginetta produce road cars. Stick an Alpine badge on a Mecachrome (since they won't be allowed to do that in LMP2 come 2018), job done?

Alpine isn't considered a manufacturer, which is how they've got away with being in P2. But Renault on the other hand . . .

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by AoB Special Stage

Alpine isn't considered a manufacturer, which is how they've got away with being in P2. But Renault on the other hand . . .

By 2018 they will be considered a manufacturer because they'll have produced a road car. That's why this is apparently the last year of the Alpine branding exercise. The new A110 start late this year in Europe, so they'll no longer be allowed in LMP2, so should then be eligible to sticker engineer an LMP1.