[VASC17R25R26] Coates Hire Newcastle 500:24-26 Nov

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by JAFA851

'Cos he's a dirty driver, always has been. Tries to hide it behind that big fake smile and baby christenings and all manner of other public arse sucking crap, making out he's a good honest bloke. He's a sellout, cheap and dirty.

LOL

[GTRMagic]

The Red Bull Racing Australia View

[peckstar]

Well im back, what great weekend. amazing venue.
lots of little things to fix for the crowd to enjoy more (more food, more drink) some things were simple like moving a big screen a few meters back.

Newcastle crowd were so polite, always clapping, picked up there rubbish and put it at the full bins

that last race was amazing to watch. Scott made some great passes and a couple of not so great ones. but really he blew it, all the penalties were there (just maybe not so severe)

Think we need to look at the pit lane speeding one, a drive through seems severe, compared to other penalties we have, We used to give drive through for a jump start, but we modified that, need to consider something similar (10 second hold at pit stop)

And SVG was wrong, you can pass, But then his word isn't really worth much

[fomoco]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

People keep saying he's got plenty of championships in him, but there's every chance that he never gets another shot. Plenty of drivers never did. How many shots has he had so far? None really, this is the only time he's been in a car capable of beating T8.

There's every chance that T8 will get back to the same level of dominance they've shown for over a decade now. Since Stone Brothers and HSV won a couple of titles. Or even Ford sort their sh-t out because Mostert over the enduros was looking like a favourite but all his car pace fell away at Puke and Newcastle for some reason.

I do think that finale and Whincup winning the title again is not the conclusion many of the fans wanted. Quite a bad conclusion to the year when Scotty dominated all the stats, except still somehow ends up not winning the title. Does JW even care that much about #7? He kind of downplayed the entire thing saying he thinks it'll be his last, he'll make a decision on his future after the season etc... does he feel that he let the fans down a bit taking this one away from the young now voted most popular driver? It wasn't a championship winning drive from JW this year, his own team mate would have taken 6 wins to JW's 3 had it not been for team orders at Newcastle.

Back to the claim that Scotty will have plenty more chances. Lowndes won his last title in 1999. Back then you'd say he'll have tonnes more titles in him, especially driving for the best team his entire career. How many did he get, zero.

How many more titles did Rick Kelly or Tander end up winning? None, not even close for Rick he's barely won races since then. How many did Alonso get after 2006... How about Greg Murphy, came so close in 2003... only won 3 more races in his entire career (2 of which were with co-drivers).

The biggest problem with this series is the points, that's been exposed horribly this year with SM taking twice as many wins as JW. They need to fix that. Indycar has 10 points difference between 1st and 2nd, which is 20%. F1 7 points, 28%. Yet V8's only 12 points difference when you're awarding 150 (rather than 50 and 25), it's only 8% difference. It rewards consistency so there's no point making that big move for the win. Also rewarding 0 for a DNF, but 42 if you happen to come back out with a wagon 13 laps down. It rewards playing it safe and not making that big move, which is what JW has done this year while SVG and SM made the bigger risks.

DJRTP came out with a faster car in the first half of the season but had some things go wrong. T8 has ended the season probably quicker than them now. JW has taken 2 wins in 3 races, Coulthard fumbles around outside the top 10 while JW/SVG are regularly at the front since the enduros.
The only reason people even think DJRTP is quicker is because Scotty is so good in quali. So it could be that T8 roll out next year with the same speed they've ended this year with, and it won't take much for JW to find a bit more speed. Nor will it take much for SVG who was very inconsistent this year. It'll be such a shame if DJRTP struggle next year and it's back to normal dominance for T8.

I'm quite disgusted with Lowndes of all people. He really cost SM that title pushing him so hard at the end. All for nothing because he had zero to gain out of it - 3 more points when he was already 460 behind SVG. Instead it dropped him from 5th to 10th in points, just desserts there. It was all so his team mate could win the drivers title, and that's not the way championships should be decided. It's bad enough SVG had to gift JW a win but to have CL launching an all out assault to get that vital point as well, and all the penalties thrown at SM during the day.

Although, SM did pull a bit of a Will Power there he's partially to blame for much out of it. What was he thinking on Simona? Poor fella.

Oh well, at least we've still got Formula E as a distraction over the summer.

As much as Craig is an expert at tap and pass, he was doing what was required,
That is put pressure on scott to make an error.

You may not like it, but he did what was required.

pity Scott didnt have his team mate there doing the same

P.S I am a Ford fan, but give credit where its due, I am a fan of Larry Perkins, Russell Ingal, Jason richards, Jim Richards, and a lot more who drove all types makes

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by fomoco

As much as Craig is an expert at tap and pass, he was doing what was required,
That is put pressure on scott to make an error.

You may not like it, but he did what was required.

pity Scott didnt have his team mate there doing the same

P.S I am a Ford fan, but give credit where its due, I am a fan of Larry Perkins, Russell Ingal, Jason richards, Jim Richards, and a lot more who drove all types makes

Thats about the truth of it. if he hadnt have run wide at the previous corner, Lowndes would not have been there

[fomoco]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Neither the race director nor the clerk of course make the decision. Be worth you reading the supercar ops manual to check out how it actually works.

Ahh mate, I am a Steward, and yes I do know what goes on.

Jump the bull **** fence of the net and see the real world

https://d3spxwpngnho1k.cloudfront.ne...iv-B-Final.pdf

[fomoco]

Originally Posted by JAFA851

'Cos he's a dirty driver, always has been. Tries to hide it behind that big fake smile and baby christenings and all manner of other public arse sucking crap, making out he's a good honest bloke. He's a sellout, cheap and dirty.

Craig is a master of tap and pass.
But race control will never believe it.

20 years as a Marshall I have seen this , and all race control can say,

Racing incident

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by HDTVKSS

perhaps he needs to have a think about his response to stress. a good sports psychologist may be able to help

All the team needed to do was get on the radio and tell Scotty to be extra careful on pit entry, given Fabian had already been penalised. Did they do this?

The rest is by-the-by.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by fomoco

Ahh mate, I am a Steward, and yes I do know what goes on.

Jump the bull **** fence of the net and see the real world

https://d3spxwpngnho1k.cloudfront.ne...iv-B-Final.pdf

Thanks for the link, seen that document before but telling point is the following from the document in your link (bold sections by me):

8.1 The RD and/or the DRD may report any on-Track Incident or suspected breach of these Rules (an “Incident”) to the Stewards. After review it shall be at the discretion of the Stewards to decide whether or not to proceed with an Investigation. The Stewards may also investigate an Incident noted by themselves. 8.2 It shall be at the discretion of the Stewards to decide if any Driver involved in an Incident should be penalised. However, unless it is clear to the Stewards that a Driver was wholly or predominantly to blame for an Incident no Penalty will be imposed.

What that confirms, is that neither the race director nor the clerk of course decide the penalty, which is what you claimed erroneously.

I live plenty in the real world of motor sport beyond the internet thank you.

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by JAFA851

'Cos he's a dirty driver, always has been. Tries to hide it behind that big fake smile and baby christenings and all manner of other public arse sucking crap, making out he's a good honest bloke. He's a sellout, cheap and dirty.

hahahahaha.


Someone needs a hug.

[FAS33]

Jamie Whincup likes to win cups.

[Razzzor]

Originally Posted by Sandgroper

Are you serious. This is called racing, is it wrong to race and help your team mates out or race the next person in general, no matter who they are or where they are. I didnt see Moff handing over his position to help out and CL is no different. Im sure each team would have done the same in the same situation.

I know if I was in that position there's no way I'd want to cost the fan favourite the championship. It wouldn't matter if JW is my team mate, he's already won 6. I just wouldn't have got involved. I intentionally would have held back and probably just not admitted it to the team.

Pye did what I would have done, not get involved and just let him through. I think that was really admirable, putting someone else above your own finish. Moffat, Simona, Courtney, Lowndes... not so much. Moffat/SM supposed to be good mates? Sh-t they can't be that good, if my good mate came up behind me I'd be letting him through then blocking Lowndes as much as I can to help him. Instead Moffat tried his hardest and SM had to literally smash into the side of him to get past.

Simona... sure he was a long way back, but so was JW (was it JW or SVG?) and she let him through. Why not turn in on them as well? Courtney also made it far more difficult than needed.

But that's just me, maybe I'm just too nice aye?

[Razzzor]

The problem with both those incidents (SVG's penalty in race 1 and SM on Simona) especially in SVG's case, is that neither of them were out of control and hit the other car. It was a case of Reynolds and Simona deciding they're not close enough so just turning in.

Reynolds especially was bad because SVG WAS far enough up the inside when they entered the corner. But SVG had to take slightly less speed in so he didn't just plow into Reynolds - he knew he couldn't use the full track. Reynolds meanwhile went in full tit using the entire racing line so by the time they got the apex of course he was further ahead, but not far enough thus contact, thus giving SVG a penalty because the stewards only look at how far up SVG was at the point of contact.

But Reynolds should have known better, of all people his arch nemesis is diving up the inside and he just flies into the corner expecting him not to be there anymore? If SVG went into the corner the same speed as Reynolds, he would have been far enough up the inside but of course probably would have just slid into Reynolds. Once he saw SVG was up there, it was up to Reynolds to either turn in and pray SVG somehow backed out of it or went overtop the kerbs, or just leave a tiny amount of room. He misjudged it, but the "is he far enough up" rule gives SVG the automatic penalty. It's a tough one and not so clear cut imo. If SVG was out of control (JW on SM at Bathurst) it would be different.

Similar to Simona, in hindsight I bet she wishes she stayed high and gave him a bit of space and there would never have been contact. She could have then continued towards probably her best result. Sure SM came from far too far back, but he WAS going to get it stopped. I think it was right to give a penalty maybe 5 or 10sec though because it could have been avoided by both parties.

[GTRMagic]

It is not SdS’s job or Mr Reynolds’ job to move out of the way just because someone is in contention for a championship

[Umai Naa]

You want a position, you race for it. Simple as that.

They aren't gentleman (and lady) racers in historics.

[Purist]

What I can't square is Craig then just letting Scott go at Turn 2 back at about Lap 20 in Race 2. That is an issue in light of what happened later. There needs to be a clear, consistent, understandable standard of driver conduct. Black-and-white rules and sliding scales of peoples' whims don't mesh.

In light of earlier events, I'd probably have adjudged the ending there with Craig as a racing incident. If you're going to use the standard that the T8 man has to do what is 'necessary' as justification, well then, Scott did exactly the same thing. Penalize both, or penalize neither one. And I'd definitely call it a racing incident if Craig never received any real sort of cautionary note from anyone after the earlier contact he made with Scott's tail.

And keep in mind, Craig spent at least five seasons as easily my favorite driver in the series, so don't get started on that tack.

[GTRMagic]

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

I know if I was in that position there's no way I'd want to cost the fan favourite the championship. It wouldn't matter if JW is my team mate, he's already won 6. I just wouldn't have got involved. I intentionally would have held back and probably just not admitted it to the team.

Pye did what I would have done, not get involved and just let him through. I think that was really admirable, putting someone else above your own finish. Moffat, Simona, Courtney, Lowndes... not so much. Moffat/SM supposed to be good mates? Sh-t they can't be that good, if my good mate came up behind me I'd be letting him through then blocking Lowndes as much as I can to help him. Instead Moffat tried his hardest and SM had to literally smash into the side of him to get past.

Simona... sure he was a long way back, but so was JW (was it JW or SVG?) and she let him through. Why not turn in on them as well? Courtney also made it far more difficult than needed.

But that's just me, maybe I'm just too nice aye?

Because Australia is better then New Zealand.

[Average Punter]

It's entirely possible that T8 threw a new set of Dunlops at Craig's car purely to get him in a position to either be in front of (or directly behind) Scotty????

Now that's TEAMwork.
Smart boy that Mr Dutton.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Average Punter

It's entirely possible that T8 threw a new set of Dunlops at Craig's car purely to get him in a position to either be in front of (or directly behind) Scotty????

Now that's TEAMwork.
Smart boy that Mr Dutton.

Crossed my mind as well. smart work, just had to niggle and tap

In all seriousness, change your plans and lock in Newcastle 18

[ford71]

Originally Posted by peckstar

In all seriousness, change your plans and lock in Newcastle 18

I know you missed out on a grandstand spot and I know you also prefer one for Bathurst, so would you be doing GA at Newcastle again, or "upgrading" ?

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by ford71

I know you missed out on a grandstand spot and I know you also prefer one for Bathurst, so would you be doing GA at Newcastle again, or "upgrading" ?

i didnt try for a grandstand spot, $300 each just wasnt going to work.

But if i could afford a grand stand spot i would, they were the better spots and reserved a seat as well as big screens.

However i found a satisfactory GA spot in the hairpin, but if it was 30c plus the shade of the grandstand might be handy.

so to answer your question, it would depend who i was with and if i wanted to spend the money. (but if i could afford it i would get a corporate ticket instead)

History shows , crowd often drops of bit in 2nd year as well, but they also improve things

[ford71]

Originally Posted by peckstar

i didnt try for a grandstand spot, $300 each just wasnt going to work.

But if i could afford a grand stand spot i would, they were the better spots and reserved a seat as well as big screens.

However i found a satisfactory GA spot in the hairpin, but if it was 30c plus the shade of the grandstand might be handy.

so to answer your question, it would depend who i was with and if i wanted to spend the money. (but if i could afford it i would get a corporate ticket instead)

History shows , crowd often drops of bit in 2nd year as well, but they also improve things

Ah ok, sorry I thought by the time you had made plans, all seats were gone.

From the telecast, it seemed to me the big screens were really in place for the seated, and screens for GA were a little light on. Maybe thats one thing they could improve for 2018.

For a track I have not been to before I would probably play it safe and make sure there's a seat (and screen) for me (and likely wife + child) but yes, it adds up fast.

Hairpin area looked like a great spot if the weather was kind.

Cheers for the feedback, it really did look great on the teev, and we spent all Saturday at home talking about a visit.

[Razzzor]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

It is not SdS’s job or Mr Reynolds’ job to move out of the way just because someone is in contention for a championship

The same can also be said that it's also not their job to get in a wreck when you're on for your best performance of the season (Simona that is).

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by ford71

Ah ok, sorry I thought by the time you had made plans, all seats were gone.

From the telecast, it seemed to me the big screens were really in place for the seated, and screens for GA were a little light on. Maybe thats one thing they could improve for 2018.

For a track I have not been to before I would probably play it safe and make sure there's a seat (and screen) for me (and likely wife + child) but yes, it adds up fast.

Hairpin area looked like a great spot if the weather was kind.

Cheers for the feedback, it really did look great on the teev, and we spent all Saturday at home talking about a visit.

they were gone by the time i looked, however i was trying to do the trip reasonable cheaply so Grandstand was not something i was seriously considering.

Definitely the screens were best placed for grandstands and corporates and GA were just lucking to be able to piggyback of them.

there were a number of screens in places where you couldnt see the track (ie at the concert oval and also at a food area.

But if you could afford it, i would recommend grandstands.

On the sunday we got there much earlier (by 9) and all the good viewing spots were taken by then