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Old 18 Jun 2020, 11:34 (Ref:3982601)   #201
Matt K
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Matt K should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridMatt K should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
For me absolutely. IMO Berger brought a lot of refreshment to DTM after years of Aufrecht who seemed like he had run out of ideas.
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Old 18 Jun 2020, 12:23 (Ref:3982626)   #202
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I think GT3 would be a good stop gap while they try and work out new rules to keep it going.
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Old 18 Jun 2020, 14:28 (Ref:3982653)   #203
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Looks like he lives on a different planet in parallel reality. That would explain his quotes about "technical competition" that takes place in DTM.
Or maybe he is right and you are wrong and there is technical development (if limited to certain areas) in DTM. How else would you explain that budgets went from ca.40 million per season in the V8 era to 80 million when they switched to the 2.0l turbo-engines. Hint: It wasn't because of more expensive hospitalities and concerts and stuff - if anything, they actually cut back on that a little bit over the last few years.
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Old 18 Jun 2020, 14:43 (Ref:3982656)   #204
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helgi should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridhelgi should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridhelgi should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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I don't think it's really that bad idea, for me seems quite doable.

GT3+alpha plan seems to be more viable than DTM Class1 (GT500 Class1 is great at the moment). I meant some of Berger's quotes sound ridiculous as if he talks to the public who have no idea about racing.
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Old 18 Jun 2020, 14:51 (Ref:3982657)   #205
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Or maybe he is right and you are wrong and there is technical development (if limited to certain areas) in DTM. How else would you explain that budgets went from ca.40 million per season in the V8 era to 80 million when they switched to the 2.0l turbo-engines. Hint: It wasn't because of more expensive hospitalities and concerts and stuff - if anything, they actually cut back on that a little bit over the last few years.

Engines are "frozen" for 5 years - they said it themselves. Suspension is almost standard. Aero is standard. Gearbox is almost the same as it was in 2000. Just to compare, GT500 allows aero development year by year and huge engine development. Those motorized advertising boards in DTM do not have this at all. Otherwise professionals like Racecar Engineering or Japanese Autosport would write at least one or two articles about R&D in DTM. There was none. Where do the money go? Just to pay for PRESTIGIOUS, PROFESSIONAL, EXCITING label.
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Old 18 Jun 2020, 16:53 (Ref:3982676)   #206
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Would they not be better to merge with ADAC gt rather than have two similar series
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Old 19 Jun 2020, 08:48 (Ref:3982757)   #207
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Would they not be better to merge with ADAC gt rather than have two similar series
No, it wouldn't. Even though in theory it's the best possibility.
But:
ADAC GT and DTM are completely different philosophies. Not only do I mean two drivers per car in the former and one in the latter but also the fact that GT Masters is not as professional series as DTM.
Also, DTM poses as European championship, trying to reach fans all around Europe while GT Masters is just a national GT3 championship.
Moreover, ITR and ADAC are (to say the least) not in very good relationship and this would rule a merger out.

To merge, both ADAC and ITR would need to make a lot of compromises. Which brand would survive - DTM or GT Masters? In my opinion, DTM should because it's way bigger but it would lead to dispute. Cars wouldn't be a problem. But should it be like a typical GT series with two drivers per car or more like a touring car championship? Would Stephane Ratel be happy if "his" championship was absorbed by DTM?
And so on and so forth. Too many questions and probably neither ITR nor ADAC eager to compromise.
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Old 29 Jun 2020, 09:10 (Ref:3984448)   #208
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As i said in other thread: DTM consists of "Touring", so there should be Touring cars inside.

In my opinion, such cars should be made out of (at least) a shell from factory, like it was in 90s or later Supertouring. Even NGTC works with that.


We don't need another new GT-Series.
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Old 29 Jun 2020, 09:14 (Ref:3984449)   #209
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As i said in other thread: DTM consists of "Touring", so there should be Touring cars inside.

In my opinion, such cars should be made out of (at least) a shell from factory, like it was in 90s or later Supertouring. Even NGTC works with that.


We don't need another new GT-Series.
GT contains 'Touring' and NGTC contains 'GT'










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Old 30 Jun 2020, 16:15 (Ref:3984764)   #210
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The RS5 and the M4 are touring cars? The Aston? The TT? The Calibra?
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Old 30 Jun 2020, 16:16 (Ref:3984765)   #211
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What is the definition of a touring car btw?
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Old 30 Jun 2020, 18:03 (Ref:3984790)   #212
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The RS5 and the M4 are touring cars?
Technically, yes. Sedan-coupe. That's why not everybody was happy to see M3 in GT2 some tine ago in Le Mans.
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Old 31 Jul 2020, 19:12 (Ref:3991941)   #213
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tux should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtux should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtux should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Just saw a picture of the new rear wings and let’s just say they’re hideous. Thank god this DTM ruleset is over after this year
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Old 19 Sep 2020, 15:40 (Ref:4004031)   #214
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tux should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtux should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtux should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
So its confirmed. DTM moves to a GT3 based ruleset called "GT PRO". Press conference taking place at the moment.

The idea is that teams will use GT3 cars with a few "modifications" that "hopefully" wont be too expensive....

https://twitter.com/DTM/status/1307342347286573058?s=20
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Old 19 Sep 2020, 16:46 (Ref:4004095)   #215
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why would private teams go here when there is the ADAC GT ?
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Old 19 Sep 2020, 17:01 (Ref:4004107)   #216
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why would private teams go here when there is the ADAC GT ?

Different format

DTM I’m sure will stay full pro, 1 hour single driver races.

DTM Would help themselves by further differentiating from ADAC and GTWC though
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Old 19 Sep 2020, 17:42 (Ref:4004146)   #217
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tux should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtux should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtux should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Just wanted to add an article with more information.

https://sportscar365.com/other-serie...ed-dtm-future/
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Old 19 Sep 2020, 23:08 (Ref:4004413)   #218
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IMO it's a good decision to ensure DTM's survival and make it more exciting. Even though racing is good and cars are amazing two factory teams against each other is hardly excting.
This is, in a way, some sort of 'going back to roots' even though the roots were touring car racing.
Having ADAC GT and DTM with the same (or almost the same) regulations is tricky although on paper it's the former that should be worried. If there are bigger teams which can spend just 'a bit more' money and be part of the DTM package that is way nore popular than ADAC, such a decision should be a no brainer for them. Good example is Rowe Racing. They don't participate in ADAC but they're very much interested in GT3 DTM.
We'll see how the sutuation looks like in reality.
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Old 20 Sep 2020, 06:57 (Ref:4004707)   #219
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The move to a GT3 based rule set must surely mean that, despite retaining the name DTM, the series can no longer be seen as 'touring cars'?
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Old 20 Sep 2020, 07:41 (Ref:4004715)   #220
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Does it really matter how it will or should be seen? The name and 'DNA' is the same and that's the most important. Arguably GT3 cars are more touring cars than silhouette bolides and remember GT3 is an interim solution, I believe it will be shaped differently in the future.
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Old 20 Sep 2020, 07:52 (Ref:4004717)   #221
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Personally I would feel it a bit strange for a series to present itself as touring cars, but use a GT-based rule set. Although I appreciate that DTM has probably been at the extreme end of what could be considered a touring car for a while now.
For some people, it is important though:

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I was for some time into the idea of GT3 cars but then I realised it's not going to work because DTM would lose its identity and I also agree it's tough to imagine DTM with a GTE ruleset because of costs.
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Old 20 Sep 2020, 09:06 (Ref:4004752)   #222
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For me it's still a tin top series, it's just the cars have higher performance than other touring car series. And to be fair, that's what has made it so popular for so long. Let's just hope with the latest announcement we can have another good season next season
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Old 20 Sep 2020, 09:14 (Ref:4004760)   #223
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This some people it's me and at the moment of writing it I completely lost confidence in DTM's chance to make GT3 work. But now as it became much closer to happening, I'm happy they've found a way through and as I enjoy watching ADAC GT races, I think DTM will be even more interesting as GT3 cars provide for a good racing spectacle and with different format of racing it should be even better.

As for how they will present themselves, Berger already said "DTM will be the best GT sprint championship in the world" so I doubt they will claim they're touring car racing series. As you rightly say, recently DTM's been far away from a 'typical' touring car and honestly saying, DTM is just DTM. It's the brand recognised around the world (okay, at least in Europe) so probably it doesn't matter if it's touring, grand touring or silhouette racing. I hope its identity won't be lost as it'll move to GT Pro and let's be honest, it's the best solution they could come up with. I believe they'll make it work.
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Old 20 Sep 2020, 09:45 (Ref:4004808)   #224
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This some people it's me and at the moment of writing it I completely lost confidence in DTM's chance to make GT3 work. But now as it became much closer to happening, I'm happy they've found a way through and as I enjoy watching ADAC GT races, I think DTM will be even more interesting as GT3 cars provide for a good racing spectacle and with different format of racing it should be even better.

As for how they will present themselves, Berger already said "DTM will be the best GT sprint championship in the world" so I doubt they will claim they're touring car racing series. As you rightly say, recently DTM's been far away from a 'typical' touring car and honestly saying, DTM is just DTM. It's the brand recognised around the world (okay, at least in Europe) so probably it doesn't matter if it's touring, grand touring or silhouette racing. I hope its identity won't be lost as it'll move to GT Pro and let's be honest, it's the best solution they could come up with. I believe they'll make it work.
I agree, if it is the best/only option on the table for a series to continue, it has to be taken.
Some people won't care, some will embrace it, some will be upset.
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Old 20 Sep 2020, 18:05 (Ref:4005129)   #225
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It's an indication that marketing departments are not able to rule a proper championship. They've tried to make some sort of GT500 but couldn't manage to handle even with GT300 and end up with another dull GT3. By the way, by logics, they can not be named "DTM", as GT is not just T. But there's no logic for advertising anyway. And still those pompous self-inflated gooffies are going to shout about super mega premier cosmic series.
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