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Old 12 Oct 2003, 16:04 (Ref:748471)   #1
darcym
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darcym should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Sponsors Choosing Drivers

This does not only apply to F1 but all professional motorsport.

Put yourself in a sponsors position. You have £X to invest.
You can't afford to be on the best 3 teams (Ferrari/Mclaren/Williams) so you want to invest in a team, get some logos on the car, driver appearances etc etc etc.

do you
a.) Pick a driver from your home country, and no other reason.
b.) Pick the best driver to get results and move the team you sponsor up the grid.

It may seem silly but I would always pick option b.

To use an example. I am from Maylasia, I can put Alex Yoong in a Minardi at the back of the grid, Alex is well known to not be good enough, he did nothing in Nippon and little in the lower formula, or I could put my money behind a foreign driver like say Justin Wilson, who has won the F3000 title and FPA titles.

Surley the smart money is on Wilsons, better results, more chance of TV appearances as the car will be further up the front, better development of the car (your money is not wasted) Why would you invest money in a driver that fails to qualify, makes your investment looks silly and the only time he is on TV is spinning off or being lapped.

There are other examples with JV/Firman/Sato etc etc.

To me if I was to sponsor a team, I would invest X and say to the team "Get me the best driver you can" not "get me a Brit to help promote fags for us, and looks good in yellow, no it doesn't matter about his skills"

Dissapointed to see people like Irvine, JV, Wilson (maybe) drop out of racing, not because they are not good enough but because someone of lesser skill fits in with a marketing campaign.

What does everyone else think. The top level of motorsport is decided by what company/country is marketing what product.

what a joke, at the top level there should be no such thing as Pay drivers.
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Old 12 Oct 2003, 16:11 (Ref:748474)   #2
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BARrouette should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Well said darcym skills must be the only reason to be in f1 not $.
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Old 12 Oct 2003, 16:50 (Ref:748507)   #3
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Jordi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridJordi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It's a vicious circle. Simply put, without skill there'd be no fans, but right now without money there'd be no F1.
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Old 12 Oct 2003, 17:08 (Ref:748518)   #4
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steve nielsen should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Wilson and Irvine came into F1 because of the sponsors from their country as well did'nt they??
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Old 12 Oct 2003, 17:22 (Ref:748532)   #5
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Jordi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridJordi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hmm, no, Wilson himself was his sponsor...
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Old 12 Oct 2003, 18:04 (Ref:748582)   #6
steve nielsen
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steve nielsen should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
No, he sold shares wich were bought by mainly english people.
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Old 12 Oct 2003, 18:15 (Ref:748586)   #7
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Jordi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridJordi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
OK. It was the fans that supported him. Good for him that they had money, people are surely not going to bail out like a sponsor.
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Old 12 Oct 2003, 18:30 (Ref:748600)   #8
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yes yes, I am not against drivers getting backed by sponsors, I just baffles me why sponsors are interested in if a Driver is of their nationality,

eg: bensons and hedges want a UK driver
Mercedes / BMW want a German Driver
Redbull wants a USA driver....

Rubbish they should want

The best driver for the team they back.

If the team does well and gets good results, surly that would be better than say a USA driver running at the back of the grid. The USA crowds would not get behind that and buy redbull if their driver is rubbish.

But if the Sauber won the championship or the odd race more people would associate redbull with "winning" and it would get more general TV air time.

Thats the part I don't understand.

eg: you can have (just for example) Firman or Fisco

Bensons pay for Firman because he is british, and he trails around the back of the grid. Fisco drags the car up the grid to score the odd point, and can develop the car better for next year to move them forward, yet Bensons would pick Firman because he can say "Smoke fags its cool" in a non italian accent.

thats more my point, Sponsort a driver because you think he can go far or will develop not because he fits your marketing eg: looks good in redbull colours.
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Old 12 Oct 2003, 18:37 (Ref:748603)   #9
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darcym should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think Sato is a great example of this.

He was rammed down Jordans neck for Honda engines, did (be honest) a very poor job and got dropped as soon as honda took their engines away.

Tested for bar (fair enough) yet again Honda are again ramming him down BAR's neck. They must have been doing this for ages as Sato was tipped for JV's seat before the season even started. Thats not juding a driver on tallent that just because you want a jap driver in for a jap engine team.

Rubbish - offer sponsor ship for Sato, if a team thinks he is worth it they will take him on and use the money, if not they can find someone else. I bet Honda would have been looking to buy a team if Sato had not got a race with BAR this year. Also funny how talk of Sato driving in Jap has been around for weeks....and it suddenly happens.

I find it annoying that at the peak of motorsport sponsors and partners can have input to who drivers where. Thats rubbish.

I think sponsors/partners should have an influnce on marketing, eg: making a driver attend events, branding and all that, but who sits in the car and who tests (like Asmer at williams - that was a money think) is utter rubbish

Look at Renault Mcnish GREAT job for them this year, yet he's out for "funny enough" a French man for a french team....funny that.

Get the BEST drivers you can, not the most national drivers or the biggest sponsor driver, or the driver whos helmet matches your car (yes renault this means you asking Fisco to change his helmet colours )

Utter rubbish. I am loosing faith in F1 as the ultimate level.
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Old 12 Oct 2003, 18:49 (Ref:748610)   #10
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Originally posted by darcym
I am loosing faith in F1 as the ultimate level.
It has always been like this. In fact I would say there are less pay drivers (as they are called) now than ever. And it is a pretty low fraction of 'pay drivers' too.

This has always been the case. As far as I can see every driver has some background that justifies his drive in F1. There may be others out there too.

I agree generally with the sentiments above, but I'm not sure it is that bad a problem.

Firstly (and I think this is sort of accepted) being a 'pay' driver does not mean you are less talented than someone who brings money. Even Michael was bankrolled by Mercedes at the beginning. Also practically every driver brings something in the way of sponsorship. Ferrari get more from there sponsors because Michael is one of there drivers. etc...

Even Keisa is a F3000 winner. When finding a new F1 driver this is about the best place to try. He hasn't done many races so far and these have been in a Minardi (who hardly have the resources to give him great support). It perhaps isn't working out, but then it doesn't always. He did get the seat partly due to bringing some money, but from day 1 he was branded a pay driver and I think that unfair. Sato is another, undoubtedly he is their due to Honda. Honda want a Japanese driver, but they say there is no point if he is a poor driver. Also Sato won the British F3 championship. No mean feat whatever the circumstances.

Anyway, my main point? It has always been thus. And at the moment it is less of an issue than before.
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Old 12 Oct 2003, 22:05 (Ref:748801)   #11
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BootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Honda may have hired a Japanse driver, but historically they have also bankrolled Senna, Mansell, Prost, Piquet and Villeneueve. Sato doesn't look too bad right now, I think he was just not ready for 2002 F1.

There's a case in Renault's defence as well. Allan has probably taught them all he knows and can get no better, whereas Montagny is one for the future and could easily replace Trulli in 2005.

Sauber couldn't win races at any time, even with stars like Alesi, Frentzen, Herbert, and Raikkonen. There's no way a top driver would join them, and it's not as if red Bull have dictated any of their choices so far.
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Old 12 Oct 2003, 22:08 (Ref:748805)   #12
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Smokey 6 litre should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I'd throw all my money at Ralph Firman, because he's the best driver to come from Norfolk, except Martin Brundle.
Failing that i'd give all my money to ITV to sack Jame Allen.
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Old 13 Oct 2003, 05:43 (Ref:749035)   #13
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The Zuschauer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
He who pays the piper calls the tune.

The sponsors don't give the money because of noble sporting intentions. They pay money so that they can make more money.

It's up to the drivers to make themselves marketable to such companies & teams. The top level of any endeavour is cut-throat, so if Wilson et al can't keep up, bad luck.
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Old 13 Oct 2003, 06:53 (Ref:749082)   #14
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Its been going on ever since motor racing first started,the guy with the money says who he wants to drive the car he's paying all the $$$ to run.Goes right back to when cars ran in their countries national colours,do you know what your countries colours were?.New Zealand was a black and silver.

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Old 13 Oct 2003, 13:36 (Ref:749587)   #15
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Miss Hardt should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I am for some kind of an entrance exam before a driver is allowed to compete in F1. It would make a great change.
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Old 13 Oct 2003, 13:39 (Ref:749592)   #16
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Originally posted by Miss Hardt
I am for some kind of an entrance exam before a driver is allowed to compete in F1. It would make a great change.
It's called a "super licence", and is actually quite hard to get. It includes results and experience in lower categories, as well as a driving test.

I think you are underestimating the ability of drivers who are at the back of the grid. If everyone had a Ferrari (or a Minardi!), the differences in lap times would be much less noticeable.
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Old 13 Oct 2003, 15:24 (Ref:749734)   #17
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GP Racer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridGP Racer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think any country that puts on a GP would love to have a local driver in the race. Look at what Sato did for Honda and the Japanese GP, he brought in huge numbers and interest. BAR and Honda are now going into the off-season with the most buzz and excitement they've had in years.

So I don't think you can dismiss nationality playing an important role all together. Maybe you guys from England(and this is no knock on my English friends here!) underestimate alittle the importance of nationality because you have such a deep talent pool of drivers and always have a number of active drivers in F1. Would you guys feel the same way if there were'nt?
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Old 14 Oct 2003, 08:33 (Ref:750598)   #18
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darcym should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I appriciate that national drivers make a real difference to local events, but I also think putting in a national driver just because he's the best you have (not good enough) is just rubbish, and bad marketing. eg: Yoong has not tainted Malaysian drivers, if that is the best they had to offer.....even I'd have a crack at beating Alex.

The driver should be an overall package, driving ablity, willing to do marketing and tow the company line, on dressing or use of sponsor products (still speak his mind though). The bottom line though is his driving and if your national guy is not up to it, or does not have the experience would you or a sponsor rarther have him be a laughing stock at your home race, or doing well and learning in lower formula ?

I know which I would want for a driver.

As I say I am not against sponsoring drivers into the seats, it just baffles my why a sponsor puts his money behind duff drivers who obviously can't cut it, when there is a fleet of young stars on the sidelines because they don't have the cash to complete lower formula or start on the F1 ladder.

eg: Do you REALLY think Asmer should have been / is testing an Williams with simple Formaula ford exp.

This either makes a joke of how easy F1 cars are to drive with all the gadgets, justes Asmer is something special already (Formaula ford results do not suggest that) or has a MASSIVE wad of cash from BMW behind him. I choose the last option. (I also think a lot of this is down to young drivers managers tipping them as the next big thing straight from karts)
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