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Old 7 Mar 2019, 18:24 (Ref:3888954)   #151
Compromised
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Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
There should have been a post race investigation into the whole thing. You can't just fly through 3 pit bays of crews, without penalty.
I agree, but how exactly can you punish Supercars (ie the most at fault party)?

The Phillip Island trial is an admission the current pit lane procedure "may" (lol) be unsafe. Pit lanes are physically at the limit to accommodate double stacking, yet it is allowed. That's not the drivers fault.

When that limit is breached, it's in the wall, into another car or, into the pit crew. I firmly believe the only reason no crew was injured during the incident is because it was Red Bull - guys were watching each other's backs, all very aware of what was transpiring, even moving to avoid problems. Unfortunately I don't have such faith in crews further down the lane...
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Old 7 Mar 2019, 22:20 (Ref:3889010)   #152
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They should let each car have it's own boom like always used to be the case, then there is no need to double stack. End of problem.
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Old 7 Mar 2019, 22:52 (Ref:3889020)   #153
Umai Naa
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
At most tracks, there is simply no room, and it'll only make the crowding worse, as well as jack up the running costs for the teams.

If the rules are followed, there is generally no issue.
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Old 7 Mar 2019, 22:56 (Ref:3889022)   #154
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Originally Posted by Compromised View Post
I agree, but how exactly can you punish Supercars (ie the most at fault party)?

The Phillip Island trial is an admission the current pit lane procedure "may" (lol) be unsafe. Pit lanes are physically at the limit to accommodate double stacking, yet it is allowed. That's not the drivers fault.

When that limit is breached, it's in the wall, into another car or, into the pit crew. I firmly believe the only reason no crew was injured during the incident is because it was Red Bull - guys were watching each other's backs, all very aware of what was transpiring, even moving to avoid problems. Unfortunately I don't have such faith in crews further down the lane...
The trial for Phillip Island has been on the agenda since late last year. From what I understand it's one of the narrowest pit lanes on the calendar. They can't easily make space for a boom per car, as the pit garages up the top end are used for support categories due to the lack of space on the paddock.

Where they're at with it now, is probably the best it'll get.
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Old 8 Mar 2019, 00:02 (Ref:3889025)   #155
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chavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
At most tracks, there is simply no room, and it'll only make the crowding worse, as well as jack up the running costs for the teams.

If the rules are followed, there is generally no issue.
Which Tracks don't have room?



Costs?

Reduce the number of crew who can service a car at once. Allow for only one air gun per side.


When the sport was run out of backyards and side alley workshops with cars towed to the track on flat bed trucks all teams could furnish a pit crew.

Today with international multi-million dollar teams teams the sport somehow can't cater for 24 cars to make a pitstop and be serviced by their own crew.

I guess that is progress.
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Old 8 Mar 2019, 00:05 (Ref:3889027)   #156
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chavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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They can't easily make space for a boom per car, as the pit garages up the top end are used for support categories due to the lack of space on the paddock.
But not a reason why the pit boom can't be stationed in front of those pit bays for the race.
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Old 8 Mar 2019, 02:58 (Ref:3889045)   #157
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If you look at the line up when they are all at 45 degrees before the pit lane opens each session it is extremely obvious they cannot fit all 24 cars on their own boom.

Then again I can never understand why there are no penalties during practice/qualifying when crews push cars back and block the lane so no one passes their car. The ultimate unsafe release as there is usually a crew member pulling the car back.
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Old 8 Mar 2019, 03:00 (Ref:3889047)   #158
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Extra pit booms, fuel rigs, nitrogen bottles, rattle guns and the people to operate and maintain them costs money.

As for progress, they're professional teams not backyard operations.
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Old 8 Mar 2019, 03:14 (Ref:3889051)   #159
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As for progress, they're professional teams not backyard operations.
If I was searching for words to describe the pit lane chaos on the weekend, backyard operation might just do the trick
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Old 8 Mar 2019, 03:40 (Ref:3889053)   #160
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The rules are fine, provided the teams don't mess up their strategy or are careless.
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Old 8 Mar 2019, 04:40 (Ref:3889056)   #161
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Extra pit booms, fuel rigs, nitrogen bottles, rattle guns and the people to operate and maintain them costs money.

As for progress, they're professional teams not backyard operations.
Of course it costs money, but so do pot plants, catering for driver's parents and extend families and entertaining assorted hangers on.

The end result is an experiment at Phillip Island that keen observers of the sport know will result in Supercar Lottery brought to you by Mr Schenken and CAMS Race Control.

Meanwhile other safety concerns such as allowing drivers to drive at full speed under Safety Car conditions rarely rate a mention.
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Old 8 Mar 2019, 06:04 (Ref:3889059)   #162
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I'm still waiting for the list of tracks that don't have enough room? It is ridiculous that at Bathurst with acres of space it's only one car per boom.

Claiming it would cost too much or not enough room, when plenty of other series around the world run endurance races with double the amount of cars in pit lanes no better or worse than any used in Supercars, is just making excuses to keep the norm.

Double Stacking has always been a stupid look. F1 has this rule, but a pitstop in F1 lasts 3 seconds so the following car is not hurt by much, and in F1 safety cars are a rarity and generally not taken into account with strategy, in Supercars a pitstop can last 30 seconds, severely screwing the team car that was close behind and safety cars are so common in the series that it is built into strategy.

Outside of F1, what other series out there don't allow cars from the same team to be serviced at the same time?
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Old 8 Mar 2019, 09:08 (Ref:3889089)   #163
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Double Stacking has always been a stupid look. F1 has this rule, but a pitstop in F1 lasts 3 seconds so the following car is not hurt by much, and in F1 safety cars are a rarity and generally not taken into account with strategy, in Supercars a pitstop can last 30 seconds, severely screwing the team car that was close behind and safety cars are so common in the series that it is built into strategy.
Double stacking IS the problem, how they think it is OK for cars to block other cars access to pits, PUSH other cars out of the way, and all sorts of crazy crap that goes on is beyond me.

Stopping pitting under safety cars is one option, but then we will end up with people doing a ZILLION miles an hour to get INTO the pits before the SC is out, and that means people will potentially be in danger, or will get pinged for going to fast past yellows.

I reckon if you ban double stacking, and the teams can sort out who stops when, and make the penalty a drive-through so there's no incentive to do it and take the penalty anyway.
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Old 10 Mar 2019, 08:14 (Ref:3889412)   #164
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Stopping pitting under safety cars is one option
I think this is the best option.

As soon as the SC board comes out the pits are closed. Anyone who goes into the pits or was in the pits at the time has to wait until the safety car train has gone past before they can rejoin.

Add to that only one team (shared boom) car is allowed in pit lane at a time.

I don't think cars would race back to the pits if they knew they would get stuck in there.
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Old 10 Mar 2019, 23:48 (Ref:3889561)   #165
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Closing the pits during safety car causes more problems than it solves but in a different area.

What you end up with is a situation where races are decided by blind luck or - even worse - the potential for misfortune or driver error actually becomes advantageous.
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Old 10 Mar 2019, 23:51 (Ref:3889562)   #166
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Interesting interview with Rick on RPM, exposed a few flaws in the current rules, including how things have evolved due to (my opinion) poor enforcement of and subsequently respect for the rules and safety.

This event saw some pretty amazing actions, eg cars almost literally pushing crew members out of the way to squeeze through a gap.
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Old 11 Mar 2019, 00:39 (Ref:3889567)   #167
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As soon as the SC board comes out the pits are closed. Anyone who goes into the pits or was in the pits at the time has to wait until the safety car train has gone past before they can rejoin.
The train takes far too long to “assemble” and as a result anyone in pit lane having to wait for the train might be held up a lap, 2 or even 3. That part of your approach won’t work.

All that needs to happen is that anyone in the lane can rejoin, using the existing rules for rejoins during an sc period
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Old 11 Mar 2019, 01:00 (Ref:3889568)   #168
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I say leave it as is, and rule with an iron fist.
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Old 11 Mar 2019, 04:26 (Ref:3889576)   #169
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I say leave it as is, and rule with an iron fist.
Where is that like button.
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Old 11 Mar 2019, 04:31 (Ref:3889577)   #170
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If I recall correctly. In the early 00's pitlane was closed under safety car in some rounds. Didn't 90% of the field pit on lap 2, with a few back markers trying their luck staying out? Didn't solve pitlane congestion, which seems to be the issue here.

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Old 11 Mar 2019, 05:27 (Ref:3889579)   #171
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If I recall correctly. In the early 00's pitlane was closed under safety car in some rounds. Didn't 90% of the field pit on lap 2, with a few back markers trying their luck staying out? Didn't solve pitlane congestion, which seems to be the issue here.
Yep.

Not banning double-stacking doesn't solve the problem, but perhaps not stopping under SC makes it less likely.
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Old 11 Mar 2019, 11:43 (Ref:3889624)   #172
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If I recall correctly. In the early 00's pitlane was closed under safety car in some rounds. Didn't 90% of the field pit on lap 2, with a few back markers trying their luck staying out? Didn't solve pitlane congestion, which seems to be the issue here.
Correct!

Here it is: https://youtu.be/-qvgbml5npk?t=114

Pitstops for everybody!
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