British F3 Nurburgring: Walker wins!!

[bella]

i think it shows a general trend though. and if the average pace is the same, surely something's a bit strange somewhere along the line because aren't the cars faster this year than last as a base point?

don't get me wrong, i'm not taking *anything* away from alvaro's acheivements. i'm just putting them into perspective, just as people do with hamilton.

[strider]

No, it's an interesting subject. I'm curious to see what AMT has to say about it. Maybe the new car isn't so much faster than the old one after all...

If you want to go off on a tangent, really all Hamilton had to do was beat Sutil since ASM has such a car/engine advantage.

[runshaw]

Originally Posted by bella

i think it shows a general trend though. and if the average pace is the same, surely something's a bit strange somewhere along the line because aren't the cars faster this year than last as a base point?

don't get me wrong, i'm not taking *anything* away from alvaro's acheivements. i'm just putting them into perspective, just as people do with hamilton.

Yes but you have to realise that some of Hamilton's qualifying times this year have also been slower than pole times set last year in the F3 Euroseries. For example, Lewis' first pole time at the Norisring this year was 48.874. The pole for last years race was 48.868. At the Nurburgring Hamilton posted laps in qualifying that were both slower than the previous years pace, even though, as you say, the cars are supposed to be faster this year.

[bella]

i'm not trumpeting hamilton in the slightest, nor is this particular discussion about him. i'm just saying that what i'm doing is the same as people saying that hamilton's domination was mostly down to the asm influence. parente might have dominated this year but he only did so because the drivers in front of him moved on and no-one's replaced them above him... natural evolution of a series.

[strider]

It's a good point, but if you look at last year's points table here, Parente has evolved much better than Dirani (although that's complicated by the Lola factor) and Asmer. It's also worth noting that even last year consistency was one of his strengths and he was only a couple of points behind Danny Watts in the table. And he didn't luck into the win at Castle Combe in 04 because he beat Adam Carroll and Danny in a straight fight, having started behind them.

[bella]

so arguably he could have still won the championship by being consistently 2nd or 3rd, since no-one has been half as, er, regular?

[Kicking-back]

Looking at experience, Kimball has probably impressed me more than Parente has.

Parente had no excuses really - he's solid but he's never going to be a superstar.

[strider]

I'm quite happy to let the future prove me right or wrong about Parente. I have also been impressed by Kimball, although nothing seemed to go right for him at the 'ring and that might be a good reason for him to stay in F3 another year. If you look at the last couple of meetings, you'd have to say that Senna could well be a superstar.

[Russfeld]

Even if he had won the last 3, its a bit early to say anyone in this year's grid is a superstar, even not-Senna.

[runshaw]

Originally Posted by foxy mole

I'm quite happy to let the future prove me right or wrong about Parente. I have also been impressed by Kimball, although nothing seemed to go right for him at the 'ring and that might be a good reason for him to stay in F3 another year. If you look at the last couple of meetings, you'd have to say that Senna could well be a superstar.

I agree about Senna definately, I reckon he is the standout driver this year. Its not bad getting a pole and a couple of podiums in your first full year of racing...when your in British F3!! But Kimball has already proved his worth at this level, with wins and an almost certain 2nd place in the ch'ship. Not many drivers stay on when they finish 2nd.

[bella]

i'm still thinking bakkerud might be good too...

[Suze]

Bruno's starting to show through now more....Bakkerud I still need to be convinced.

[runshaw]

Originally Posted by bella

i'm still thinking bakkerud might be good too...

Yes he is definately one to watch as well, although his first half of the season was better than the second. Its funny, because he wasnt even a regular front runner in FBMW. But also there are other good ones who are only in their first year of F3, like Dan Clarke who has done well this year, and was even mentioned on the ITV F1 programme as a Briton to watch out for in the future. Conway has done well too, but I reckon the best rookies are Senna and Kimball.

[Suze]

With you there - without wishing for this to start into yet another Dan Clarke bashing thread, I think he's proved quite a few people wrong this year and shown that he can drive...be interesting to see how he progresses next season too.

I don't think we've really seen anything special from Conway to date, Bruno is now starting to show through as I said before but in my opinion Charlie Kimball has been by far and away the best rookie this year.

[strider]

Originally Posted by Russfeld

Even if he had won the last 3, its a bit early to say anyone in this year's grid is a superstar, even not-Senna.

I didn't mean to say that Senna (Senna Lalli if you prefer) was a superstar already, just that now I could see the possibility of him becoming one, whereas at the beginning of the year he was very much an unknown quantity.

[Suze]

How many car races was he on at the beginning of the season? Even having x amount of F3 under his belt now, it's still not many races at all. This time next year will be interesting to see how he's done.

[ensign14]

Parente this year reminds me of Sospiri the year he won the F3000 title - a bit like Gripper Stebson amongst junior school kids; having spent so long in the formula anything BUT the title would be a disappointment. Had some of the Euro F3 drivers been in British F3 (as they would have been a couple of years ago) Parente would not have been Champ, IMO.

[Suze]

Yes but that's starting on the what ifs ensign....the grid is / was as it is this year so let's deal with and look at that instead of speculating what could have been.

[bella]

hmm, ensign14 just said in 4 lines what i've been trying to say in about 10 posts... it's not starting the ifs at all, it's putting it into perspective.

[Suze]

Agreed, *if* some of the Euro guys had been in F3 I can't have seen Parente winning the championship, yes that's perspective - but the point is, they weren't, he's won and that's that.

[strider]

I can assure you that Alvaro Parente is not even a bit like Gripper Stebson!

[AMT]

Originally Posted by bella

i think it shows a general trend though. and if the average pace is the same, surely something's a bit strange somewhere along the line because aren't the cars faster this year than last as a base point?

don't get me wrong, i'm not taking *anything* away from alvaro's acheivements. i'm just putting them into perspective, just as people do with hamilton.

You assert that the '05 Dallara is quicker than the '04 (I don't know where you get that opinion), then cite Silverstone GP, where it wasn't, then blame Alvaro for that! He (we) certainly had less-than-stellar weekends, such as Thruxton, but generally his performance this year has been much more in line with his ability, which is exceptional. And don't forget he's still young - not yet 20. For balance, look at Croft, Monza and (if you're objective) Silverstone GP. And Nurburgring of course.

Regarding the big "IF" (the Euroseries question), I've also been involved with Euroseries this yesr and IMO the only driver who would have given Alvaro trouble would have been Hamilton. And HE is as good as people say.

[Kicking-back]

Originally Posted by AMT

You assert that the '05 Dallara is quicker than the '04 (I don't know where you get that opinion)

Why not run an 04 car then, if the 05 isn't quicker?

[runshaw]

Originally Posted by AMT

You assert that the '05 Dallara is quicker than the '04 (I don't know where you get that opinion)

Yes is there any particular reason why Dallara bring a newer car out that isn't quicker than the previous model?

[AMT]

The reason that everyone runs '05 cars is that the '04 isn't legal in the Championship category. A number of regulation changes were introduced, mainly regarding head protection, which in themselves harm the aerodynamics and the centre of gravity. Those people with a long-term interest in F3 may remember a similar situation when the 2002 model was introduced - '99-based model was quicker.