Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Australasian Touring Cars.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 3 Dec 2011, 09:18 (Ref:2994705)   #1
GTRMagic
Race Official
1% Club
 
GTRMagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Australia
Sell me this pen....
Posts: 46,571
GTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Ford Motorsport Manager... Gooooonnnneeee!!!!

Story Here

27 races down in 2011... with a win score of 24 red, 3 blue... it arguably demonstrates itself as to some of the reasons...

Wonder who will be the replacement?
GTRMagic is offline  
__________________
Happy David Thexton Day, 21st March 2003
“I am not uncertain” - Dollar Bill Stern, Billions
“Fear stimulates my imagination” - Don Draper, Mad Men
“Everybody Lies” - Dr Gregory House
Quote
Old 3 Dec 2011, 09:32 (Ref:2994715)   #2
peckstar
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Cayman Islands
Posts: 16,040
peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
thought you would have added that to the other six threads of the same name
peckstar is offline  
Quote
Old 3 Dec 2011, 09:36 (Ref:2994718)   #3
GTRMagic
Race Official
1% Club
 
GTRMagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Australia
Sell me this pen....
Posts: 46,571
GTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame


Mr Styrring added so much to the Ford program that he might have deserved his own

Its not great news in the lead up to the CotF process, the timing of renegotiation of deals at DJR, SBR & FPR...

Or is it another signal of disinterest from the Blue Oval?
GTRMagic is offline  
__________________
Happy David Thexton Day, 21st March 2003
“I am not uncertain” - Dollar Bill Stern, Billions
“Fear stimulates my imagination” - Don Draper, Mad Men
“Everybody Lies” - Dr Gregory House
Quote
Old 4 Dec 2011, 19:29 (Ref:2995170)   #4
xrystl
Racer
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Pitcairn Islands
gold coast
Posts: 432
xrystl should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
This just maybe the catalyst that Ford needs to bail out of the V8s !!
xrystl is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Dec 2011, 19:55 (Ref:2995177)   #5
bluesport
Veteran
 
bluesport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Australia
Posts: 3,557
bluesport User had had their licence endorsedbluesport User had had their licence endorsed
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrystl View Post
This just maybe the catalyst that Ford needs to bail out of the V8s !!
If we look at results from the whole V8 era (after the demise of group A) it probably would have been better if Ford never entered the category in the first place.........has it been a waste of money? Just look at the results this year and they get no help from VESA. Why continue to spend millions propping up the category only to have poor results damage sales? Manufacturers aren't just into racing for the sport, they need it to improve the bottom line.
bluesport is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Dec 2011, 22:18 (Ref:2995226)   #6
Tourer
Veteran
 
Tourer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Australia
Sideways
Posts: 4,345
Tourer is going for a new lap record!Tourer is going for a new lap record!Tourer is going for a new lap record!Tourer is going for a new lap record!Tourer is going for a new lap record!Tourer is going for a new lap record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesport View Post
If we look at results from the whole V8 era (after the demise of group A) it probably would have been better if Ford never entered the category in the first place.........has it been a waste of money? Just look at the results this year and they get no help from VESA. Why continue to spend millions propping up the category only to have poor results damage sales? Manufacturers aren't just into racing for the sport, they need it to improve the bottom line.
in a parity formula, both Ford and Holden teams have the same opportunity to win from a technical perspective.

It is how teams are managed and develop their cars that provides the difference in performance.

It is also about the manufacturer working with the teams to manage which teams run their cars and how those teams go about it. Howard Marsden showed that Ford could be successful if the whole process was managed properly - those that have come after him have simply fiddled while Rome burned. No help from VESA needed, Ford need a good operator in the role and work with the teams to get back in the right direction.
Tourer is offline  
__________________
“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue
Quote
Old 4 Dec 2011, 22:43 (Ref:2995235)   #7
peckstar
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Cayman Islands
Posts: 16,040
peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesport View Post
If we look at results from the whole V8 era (after the demise of group A) it probably would have been better if Ford never entered the category in the first place.........has it been a waste of money? Just look at the results this year and they get no help from VESA. Why continue to spend millions propping up the category only to have poor results damage sales? Manufacturers aren't just into racing for the sport, they need it to improve the bottom line.
in the last ten years (the time mentioned in the article) they have won 6 of the ten championship, including 3 in a row leading up to this year

I fail to see the issue that you talk about and i am a ford fan.

I like to think ford fans are a bit more robust than that, and so i question your loyalty to the brand and suggest that maybe you should go shopping for some red glasses, they have always fitted the fairweather supporter better
peckstar is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Dec 2011, 23:16 (Ref:2995251)   #8
bluesport
Veteran
 
bluesport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Australia
Posts: 3,557
bluesport User had had their licence endorsedbluesport User had had their licence endorsed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourer View Post
in a parity formula, both Ford and Holden teams have the same opportunity to win from a technical perspective.

It is how teams are managed and develop their cars that provides the difference in performance.

It is also about the manufacturer working with the teams to manage which teams run their cars and how those teams go about it. Howard Marsden showed that Ford could be successful if the whole process was managed properly - those that have come after him have simply fiddled while Rome burned. No help from VESA needed, Ford need a good operator in the role and work with the teams to get back in the right direction.
Totally agree with your comments on Howard Marsden and I think you can add Geoff Polites too. But, the blunder to cut T8 has already been made and that undid most the their hard work. VESA could help with 14 red RECs and 14 blue RECs for a start.

After three straight losses at Bathurst (the last two with no blue teams even on the podium) the questions remain, is participating in the category actually hurting Ford's sales by merely providing holden with someone to beat? Who needs who most, Ford or VESA?

Maybe Ford should tell VESA "bugger your rules, we're going testing to catch up". What could VESA do about it, take action and push the series closer to one manufacturer? Ford need to grow some balls and take this mob on!
bluesport is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Dec 2011, 23:24 (Ref:2995255)   #9
peckstar
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Cayman Islands
Posts: 16,040
peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesport View Post
Totally agree with your comments on Howard Marsden and I think you can add Geoff Polites too. But, the blunder to cut T8 has already been made and that undid most the their hard work. VESA could help with 14 red RECs and 14 blue RECs for a start.

After three straight losses at Bathurst (the last two with no blue teams even on the podium) the questions remain, is participating in the category actually hurting Ford's sales by merely providing holden with someone to beat? Who needs who most, Ford or VESA?

Maybe Ford should tell VESA "bugger your rules, we're going testing to catch up". What could VESA do about it, take action and push the series closer to one manufacturer? Ford need to grow some balls and take this mob on!
dont you see how you contradict yourself in that psot

Ford made a big blunder in cutting triple 8, but its V8S fault there not winning because triple 8 are beating them.
peckstar is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Dec 2011, 23:47 (Ref:2995272)   #10
bluesport
Veteran
 
bluesport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Australia
Posts: 3,557
bluesport User had had their licence endorsedbluesport User had had their licence endorsed
Quote:
Originally Posted by peckstar View Post
dont you see how you contradict yourself in that psot

Ford made a big blunder in cutting triple 8, but its V8S fault there not winning because triple 8 are beating them.
You can suit yourself mate. I was originally just replying to xcrstl's post about the possibility of Ford exiting the series.
bluesport is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Dec 2011, 23:59 (Ref:2995277)   #11
peckstar
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Cayman Islands
Posts: 16,040
peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesport View Post
You can suit yourself mate. I was originally just replying to xcrstl's post about the possibility of Ford exiting the series.

but you still said both of those things

Its like your asking for V8S to legislate against Fords ( massive international company) stupidity. thats never going to happen

You cant force Ford to sponsor more cars either,
peckstar is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Dec 2011, 00:14 (Ref:2995284)   #12
bluesport
Veteran
 
bluesport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Australia
Posts: 3,557
bluesport User had had their licence endorsedbluesport User had had their licence endorsed
Quote:
Originally Posted by peckstar View Post
but you still said both of those things

Its like your asking for V8S to legislate against Fords ( massive international company) stupidity. thats never going to happen

You cant force Ford to sponsor more cars either,
What I am trying to say is that Ford need to stop going to Bathurst every year like "lambs to the slaughter". In your previous post you referred to their successes in the championship. But I can't think of one year where they won both the championship and Bathurst.

But let's focus on this question: Who needs who more? Does Ford need VESA or does VESA need Ford?.........I'd like to see Ford take them on, holden won't leave because the category is their brainchild.
bluesport is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Dec 2011, 00:34 (Ref:2995289)   #13
peckstar
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Cayman Islands
Posts: 16,040
peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesport View Post
What I am trying to say is that Ford need to stop going to Bathurst every year like "lambs to the slaughter". In your previous post you referred to their successes in the championship. But I can't think of one year where they won both the championship and Bathurst.

But let's focus on this question: Who needs who more? Does Ford need VESA or does VESA need Ford?.........I'd like to see Ford take them on, holden won't leave because the category is their brainchild.
the last time ford won bathurst, they also won the championship. This is the first time Holden have done that since then. If you look back through history, you will see that Holden have a better bathurst record than ford, but Ford have a better championship record than Holden

Has Ford ever needed V8S, they have shown before that they are ready to walk away from racing, they made a significant reduction a few years ago (when they lost triple 8) There is only a limited budget for it.

this would also be the same for Holden, who can also walk away, no big deal.

that is why V8S have been looking at COTF so that they can reduce their manufacturer dependance and also introduce other manufacturers (did you say KIA )

(also just as a side issue, its no longer VESA or V8SA (they dropped the A from the name and are now just V8 Supercars)
peckstar is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Dec 2011, 00:53 (Ref:2995295)   #14
Alan52
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Australia
Glenmore Park
Posts: 1,634
Alan52 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAlan52 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
The Ford people who made the decision to cut 888 are the motor racing equivalent of the Decca Records executive who passed on signing The Beatles.
Alan52 is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Dec 2011, 02:17 (Ref:2995314)   #15
bluesport
Veteran
 
bluesport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Australia
Posts: 3,557
bluesport User had had their licence endorsedbluesport User had had their licence endorsed
Quote:
Originally Posted by peckstar View Post
the last time ford won bathurst, they also won the championship. This is the first time Holden have done that since then. If you look back through history, you will see that Holden have a better bathurst record than ford, but Ford have a better championship record than Holden

Has Ford ever needed V8S, they have shown before that they are ready to walk away from racing, they made a significant reduction a few years ago (when they lost triple 8) There is only a limited budget for it.

this would also be the same for Holden, who can also walk away, no big deal.

that is why V8S have been looking at COTF so that they can reduce their manufacturer dependance and also introduce other manufacturers (did you say KIA )

(also just as a side issue, its no longer VESA or V8SA (they dropped the A from the name and are now just V8 Supercars)
Someone said KIA........The Bathurst 1000, holden vs KIA........doesn't seem to have the same ring to it somehow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan52 View Post
The Ford people who made the decision to cut 888 are the motor racing equivalent of the Decca Records executive who passed on signing The Beatles.
Exactly.
bluesport is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Dec 2011, 02:25 (Ref:2995317)   #16
Bevan-L
Veteran
 
Bevan-L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Australia-Aboriginal
Can-Brah!!
Posts: 585
Bevan-L should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Who cares if ford leaves? Motorsport is certainly their main priority....
Bevan-L is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Dec 2011, 03:04 (Ref:2995330)   #17
GTRMagic
Race Official
1% Club
 
GTRMagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Australia
Sell me this pen....
Posts: 46,571
GTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
It is still interesting to consider that in the post-CotF world that 888 Race Engineering (as opposed to Team Vodafone..) are said to be looking to supply rolling chassis to both Ford and Holden teams.

So in a perverse way, 888 will still be building Fords, just operated by someone else... all Ford has to do is to endure they contribute enough sponduli to those customer teams.. and they get 888 involvement in their program by stealth
GTRMagic is offline  
__________________
Happy David Thexton Day, 21st March 2003
“I am not uncertain” - Dollar Bill Stern, Billions
“Fear stimulates my imagination” - Don Draper, Mad Men
“Everybody Lies” - Dr Gregory House
Quote
Old 5 Dec 2011, 04:02 (Ref:2995352)   #18
bluesport
Veteran
 
bluesport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Australia
Posts: 3,557
bluesport User had had their licence endorsedbluesport User had had their licence endorsed
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTRMagic View Post
It is still interesting to consider that in the post-CotF world that 888 Race Engineering (as opposed to Team Vodafone..) are said to be looking to supply rolling chassis to both Ford and Holden teams.

So in a perverse way, 888 will still be building Fords, just operated by someone else... all Ford has to do is to endure they contribute enough sponduli to those customer teams.. and they get 888 involvement in their program by stealth
GTR, T8 equipment didn't help PMM too much.
bluesport is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Dec 2011, 04:04 (Ref:2995353)   #19
Peregrine
Racer
 
Peregrine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Australia
Emu Plains
Posts: 286
Peregrine should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTRMagic View Post
It is still interesting to consider that in the post-CotF world that 888 Race Engineering (as opposed to Team Vodafone..) are said to be looking to supply rolling chassis to both Ford and Holden teams.

So in a perverse way, 888 will still be building Fords, just operated by someone else... all Ford has to do is to endure they contribute enough sponduli to those customer teams.. and they get 888 involvement in their program by stealth
Freudian slip ?
Peregrine is offline  
__________________
I can type whatever i want......far queue can't.
Quote
Old 5 Dec 2011, 04:12 (Ref:2995356)   #20
GTRMagic
Race Official
1% Club
 
GTRMagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Australia
Sell me this pen....
Posts: 46,571
GTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesport View Post
GTR, T8 equipment didn't help PMM too much.
Just because you buy a recipe book from Margaret Fulton doesnt mean you can make yourself a cake as well as she can, even if you follow the recipe to the letter...

That said, if you bought one of her cakes already made, its much closer to the original design than your own home efforts.
GTRMagic is offline  
__________________
Happy David Thexton Day, 21st March 2003
“I am not uncertain” - Dollar Bill Stern, Billions
“Fear stimulates my imagination” - Don Draper, Mad Men
“Everybody Lies” - Dr Gregory House
Quote
Old 5 Dec 2011, 04:21 (Ref:2995360)   #21
bluesport
Veteran
 
bluesport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Australia
Posts: 3,557
bluesport User had had their licence endorsedbluesport User had had their licence endorsed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine View Post
Freudian slip ?
Lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTRMagic View Post
Just because you buy a recipe book from Margaret Fulton doesnt mean you can make yourself a cake as well as she can, even if you follow the recipe to the letter...

That said, if you bought one of her cakes already made, its much closer to the original design than your own home efforts.
I see your point.
bluesport is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ford and Motorsport... can they afford it? GTRMagic Australasian Touring Cars. 35 30 Aug 2006 02:06
All change at Ford Motorsport? GTRMagic Australasian Touring Cars. 12 23 Mar 2005 10:47
Ford Motorsport 100 Yrs josvandeperre Motorsport History 2 30 Oct 2001 21:23


All times are GMT. The time now is 14:32.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.